Is Feet washing an ordainance that Jesus put in the Church.

[rlvaughn]

Question about feet washing & ordinations

Most Churches in these parts wash feet as part of the ordination of preachers/deacons. I believe we do it backwards because only the candidates wash any feet. I suggested a few years back that we wash their feet like Jesus did but received a stern, "shut up boy" from one of the older preachers.

LeBuick, I would like to find out more about this. I am working on materials toward a history of feet washing among Baptists and would like to document this use of washing feet as part of an ordination service. You can post here and/or contact me by private message. (I assume you are speaking of this happening in Baptist churches?) Thanks.

 

[LeBuick]

LeBuick, I would like to find out more about this. I am working on materials toward a history of feet washing among Baptists and would like to document this use of washing feet as part of an ordination service. You can post here and/or contact me by private message. (I assume you are speaking of this happening in Baptist churches?) Thanks.

Yes, we are bapitist. We don't do it at our Church but It does happen at other Churches. I don't have any documentation or anything.

After the catechism, the candidates that pass will begin to wash the feet of the board. Followed by the laying on hands/prayer and their ordination sermon. We then hand out the certificates and call it a night.

 

[Deacon]

We just had a foot washing ceremony at the church last week.

I was able to wash the feet of a beloved brother-deacon.
Strangely I felt personally honored at being able to perform the service.

So if someone considers foot washing a Baptist church ordinance are they really Baptist?

I thought one of the distictives was "Two Ordinances".

Rob

 

[Brother Bob]

So if someone considers foot washing a Baptist church ordinance are they really Baptist?

Now this one I don't understand, are we Baptist if we consider it an ordainance?

We as Old Regular Baptist and I think all Primitive and United Baptist in this area and maybe the Freewill also do consider feetwashing (footwashing) as being established in the Church by the Lord Himself.
The same time we take Communion and after all members have partaked of the Bread and Fruit of the Vine, the Moderator then reads:
John, chapter 13

"13": Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.

"14": If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.

"15": For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

He then proceeds to pick out one of the brethren, one of his deacons, assistant Moderator or anyone for that matter and the deacon give him a towel to gird himself. The Moderator is the first to take the pitcher and pour a pan of water and begins to wash whoever he picked out and wash his feet and then that person in turn washes the Moderators feet. The deacons begin to spread out with towels and pans of water to start the house out washing each others feet until all have washed someone's feet and have had theirs washed. During the Communion there is complete silence but during the feet washing there is contineous singing. After all have finished the Moderator inquires to make sure no one was left out and then we sing a song and go out as they did with the Lord.

We do consider it as being established in the church and to be kept up until the Lord comes again. I find it an honor to wash my brothers feet whether I get mine washed or not.

Ordainance may be too strong of a word but it is considered a practice that is to be kept up in the church.

I think it certainly meets with the definition of Ordainance.

Ordainance
2 : something ordained or decreed by fate or a deity

 

[Deacon]

I guess one of the "T"s in the Baptist distinctives could just as easily be "T"hree ordinances rather than "T"wo ordinances. :thumbs:
If we could think up seven more it would even work with ten. :smilewinkgrin:

Rob

 

[Brother Bob]

I guess one of the "T"s in the Baptist distinctives could just as easily be "T"hree ordinances rather than "T"wo ordinances. :thumbs:
If we could think up seven more it would even work with ten. :smilewinkgrin:

Rob

Enlighten me to what the two are? Who decided that only Baptism and Lord's Supper are the only ordainances in the church?

Maybe you didn't read my post about the Lord's Supper that it also includes the feetwashing?

To be honest, I use the Bible to decide what is the ordainances in the Church and not the writings of someone else.


Two ordinances (Baptism and Communion)
Generally, Baptist churches recognize only two Biblical ordinances that are to be performed on a regular basis by churches: baptism and communion. Some churches, including some Free Will Baptists, also practice foot washing as a third ordinance.

 

[TomVols]

It is not an ordinance. You see no practice of it in Acts nor regulation of it in the Epistles. You do see this occuring for baptism and for Lord's Supper. I don't recall any early church practice of it in history, but I may be wrong on that count. Remember that the washing of the feet was a cultural, necessary practice. The point of Jesus' washing the disciples' feet was that the King of Kings washed dirt from the feet of sinners who needed their sins washed away by Him even more.

Interestingly enough, I grew up United Baptist and have participated in many feetwashings. I've seen it done in SB churches as a special observance. However, there is no Scriptural evidence or command for it to be a continual church practice/ordinance. I don't think churches that practice this are sinning so long as they do not equate it with LS or baptism. rlvaughn is right about that.

 

[Brother Bob]

I have no inclination to dispense with the other practices just because they don't rise to someone else's definition of an ordinance.

Thanks rivaughn for being willing to accept others views on the subject, I realize that many others do not practice the feetwashing in their communion services but we have as long as Old Regular has been in existance and do consider it set in the Church by the Lord Himself. I really do not think any have a right to deny what is an ordainance if shown by Jesus to be an example to us. I find by what little research I have done that (distinctives) vary from churches but they all are still Baptist.

Baptist Distinctives
Enter a topic name to show or a new topic name to create; then press Enter
http://www.speroforum.com/wiki/default.aspx/SperoWiki/BaptistDistinctives.html


Summary A collection of doctrines held by various Christians who all call themselves Baptists Baptists have no central authority and thus there is a wide range of distinctives which they consider to be orthodox, and therefore Baptist. Some Baptists, though, reject the idea of having any distinctives as creedalism - a belief that no one can dictate what they can believe (see Emerging Church). Also, other Baptists believe distinctives are not necessary to be followed and are not germane to one's salvation.
This backronym is used by some Baptist churches as a summary of the distinctives or distinguishing beliefs of Baptists.

• Biblical authority
• Autonomy of the local church
• Priesthood of all believers
• Two ordinances (baptism and communion)
• Individual soul liberty
• Separation of Church and State
• Two offices of the church (pastor and deacon)

Two ordinances (Baptism and Communion)
Generally, Baptist churches recognize only two Biblical ordinances that are to be performed on a regular basis by churches: baptism and communion. Some churches, including some Free Will Baptists, also practice foot washing as a third ordinance.

Apparently there are different views on the subject Tom. It is an ordainance in our church and will be intill the Lord comes again I think. I hear many of the old Baptist Preachers preach from the stand that Jesus set it in the church and is to be kept until He returns. We find what Jesus said to be a part of church doctrine also.

John, chapter 13

"13": Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.

"14": If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.

"15": For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

"16": Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. ( We especially find this verse to be binding on all of us.)

Bro Tom;
We do consider it to be a part of our communion service and you say you were raised in the United Baptist and all the United Baptist I know believe it to be a part of their Communion service also.

The point of Jesus' washing the disciples' feet was that the King of Kings washed dirt from the feet of sinners who needed their sins washed away by Him even more

I don't accept that understanding of the Scripture Tom, they had already been baptized of John. If it were to just wash their dirty feet He would of not said the following;

John, chapter 13
"6": Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet?

"7": Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.

"8": Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.



So, I guess you believe we are sinning.:tear:

 

[npetreley]

I don't see it as an ordinance, but I don't see anything wrong with doing it as an ordinance. To me, one of the most significant parts of this passage is the following:

8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.

I read this as meaning that "washing another's feet" is symbolic of helping them remain blameless in Christ. Confessing your sins to a brother, encouraging a brother to do so, helping to carry their burdens, and things like that are, to me, acts of service and washing each other's feet. I think this is closer to what Jesus was telling us to do than literally wash each other's feet. But again, I don't see anything wrong with the symbolic act, especially because it encourages humility to go through with it.


​

 

[Brother Bob]

what about these Scriptures?

"14": If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.

"15": For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.

And this one which I take to mean the greatest one of all in this passage.

"16": Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. ( We especially find this verse to be binding on all of us.)


I guess what I am asking is how do you justify not washing feet in your Communion services?

I do find references to the washing of feet in the epistles.

1 Timothy, chapter 5
"10": Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.

Someone will say she just washed their dirty feet but why didn't it say she had washed others feet? Also there is Mary that washed the Lord's feet with her tears and dryed them with the hair on her head. I think it has more meaning than just washing dirty feet.

 

[npetreley]

Bob, if your question is directed at me, I am not responding to your posts anymore. My post about this topic was just my opinion on the subject, not a direct response to anything you said.

​

 

[Brother Bob]

No, npet and you just did respond to everything I said. :laugh: You will have to be rebaptized now. :laugh:

 

[TomVols]

Bro Tom;
We do consider it to be a part of our communion service and you say you were raised in the United Baptist and all the United Baptist I know believe it to be a part of their Communion service also.

I don't accept that understanding of the Scripture Tom, they had already been baptized of John. If it were to just wash their dirty feet He would of not said the following;

John, chapter 13
"6": Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet?

"7": Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.

"8": Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.



So, I guess you believe we are sinning.:tear:

You said you don't agree with my understanding of the Scripture. What are you disagreeing with? Your post isn't clear.
As far as whether or not your church is sinning, again, I'm not saying that. Some churches footwash, some have seder services, and that's their perogative. It is not anyone's perogative to try to make the Bible say something it doesn't say. If you have a problem me saying that, then you have a big problem :tongue3:

Grace and peace to you!

 

[Baptist_Pastor/Theologian]

You said you don't agree with my understanding of the Scripture. What are you disagreeing with? Your post isn't clear.
As far as whether or not your church is sinning, again, I'm not saying that. Some churches footwash, some have seder services, and that's their perogative. It is not anyone's perogative to try to make the Bible say something it doesn't say. If you have a problem me saying that, then you have a big problem :tongue3:

Grace and peace to you!

Now that is the type of response I appreciate from our moderators. I am glad to see we can have a little fun with each other...:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Brother Bob]

You said you don't agree with my understanding of the Scripture. What are you disagreeing with? Your post isn't clear.
As far as whether or not your church is sinning, again, I'm not saying that. Some churches footwash, some have seder services, and that's their perogative. It is not anyone's perogative to try to make the Bible say something it doesn't say. If you have a problem me saying that, then you have a big problem :tongue3:

I didn't agree with Jesus was washing away their sins by washing their feet for they had already been baptized by John. I also did not agree with that it was not sin UNLESS a church considered it as being like the LS or as we do a part of the LS. as do the United, where you say you came from, I never try to make the Bible say something it doesn't say but why is Jesus's words not count when He says "if I have done it unto you then you also ought to do it unto one another, for I have given you an example that you should do as I have done unto you." Also, a scripture that is overlooked in almost every Communion I am in unless I am taking care of it and that is "the servant is not greater than the Lord". To me that Scripture has real deep meaning to it.

Tom, I doubt if we disagree very much, you just don't want to call it an ordainance and probably because you don't practice it but if your parents are still living when you go home then I would think the subject don't come up very much.

Where I was at Monday preaching a funeral was filled with United Baptist and they covered me up after services wanting to talk to me, including their preachers. They are some of my best friends and we agree almost to a T on everything except they are a little more liberal on practice than we are. God Bless Tom to you and hopefully your parents are still living.

 

[TomVols]

:tongue3:

I didn't agree with Jesus was washing away their sins by washing their feet

I didn't say that. I was saying that the disciples needed the blood of Jesus to forgive their sins more than they needed water to wash mud off their feet. People need salvation more than soap, amen?

I also did not agree with that it was not sin UNLESS a church considered it as being like the LS or as we do a part of the LS. as do the United, where you say you came from

Well, here's where we'd disagree. I wouldn't say a church is sinning if they consider FW an ordinance, but as I said I do not believe it is appropriate to say all churches must practice something the Scriptures do not command all churches to practice, and it is not appropriate to say the Scriptures equate FW with bapt/LS when it clearly does not. I wouldn't call these major theological reasons to kill each other, though :tongue3:

but why is Jesus's words not count when He says "if I have done it unto you then you also ought to do it unto one another, for I have given you an example that you should do as I have done unto you."

They do count, but must be interpreted faithfully, accurately and in context. To extrapolate that FW is an "ordinance" from this doesn't do any of that, IMHO.

you just don't want to call it an ordainance and probably because you don't practice it

I don't practice it continually because I don't see the Biblical injunction to do so. Tradition has nothing to do with it.

if your parents are still living when you go home then I would think the subject don't come up very much.

My parents became Southern Baptist ten years ago, so this isn't a bone of contention, especially if you read what I wrote earlier about it being done recently in a SB church - the church they are members of.

 

[Brother Bob]

Well, as I said I knew we couldn't be too far apart. I would think if you give it some thought you might even withdraw the sinning part for that is a strong statement for people trying to make it as sure as they can.

One last thing Tom, you do know that the Baptist destinctives do include the language that some consider the FW to be a part of the ordainance don't you? I mean its not just me that believes it. Well, once again we eased some some doctrine. We keep it up and might find out we are closer than ever. Your friend had a funeral today to take care of.

 

[TomVols]

I would think if you give it some thought you might even withdraw the sinning part

I've addressed this, brother. You're putting words in my mouth by taking something out of context. Stop doing that

One last thing Tom, you do know that the Baptist destinctives do include the language that some consider the FW to be a part of the ordainance don't you? I mean its not just me that believes it.

I don't know that there's a definitive list of "baptist distinctives" but FW certainly hasn't appeared on any notable ones I've seen. Baptist distinctives tend to be creedobaptism and ecclesiological autonomy, not ordinances.

We keep it up and we might find we're closer than ever

Well, get right and you'll agree with me :laugh:

 

[Brother Bob]

I don't think churches that practice this are sinning so long as they do not equate it with LS or baptism.

You don't think it is sinning as long as they do not equate it with Lord's Supper or Baptism. I told you that we do equate it with, and consider it a part of the Lord's Supper, so therefore to not be sinning we can't do that, is what I take you to be saying, if its something different say so.

I would think if you give it some thought you might even withdraw the sinning part I've addressed this, brother. You're putting words in my mouth by taking something out of context. Stop doing that

So, give the correct context if I have it wrong.

don't know that there's a definitive list of "baptist distinctives" but FW certainly hasn't appeared on any notable ones I've seen. Baptist distinctives tend to be creedobaptism and ecclesiological autonomy, not ordinances.

What ever they are they are man made so I could care less if not Scripture. We say Jesus established them in the church and thats what we live by. Everyone else can do as they wish.

We keep it up and we might find we're closer than ever

Well, get right and you'll agree with me :laugh:

I guess its just too hard to be humble. You get it right. Don't know why I even tried.

 

[Jeep Dragon]

What is required in the Bible to make anything considered a "church ordinance"? What commands that Jesus gave did He specifically tell us to be church ordinances?

Just specualtion, but could many of the "church ordinances" have come about from Jesus' commands for all of us to do that have made their way to become "organized" "administrated" practices when persecuted Christians decided to gather together and practice such together. As time went on, such practices became more organized.

All we see from the Bible concerning practices such as communion and feet washing, as Jesus commanding us to do them (commanding the disciples to do them along with other commands such as "love one another" and "go into all the world and preach the gospel").

We see Paul addressing a church in Corinth concerning communion. The fact that it was being practiced in a church setting was a natural result of people obeying Jesus' commands and doing them together. After all, if we are to remember Jesus' body and blood with bread and a cup often, it would be easier to set up an organized schedule for everyone to follow.

Any other thoughts or ideas?