Is God a Compulsionist?

[Van]

Years ago I sat in a waiting room, on a stormy night in a southern hospital. I faced a wall of glass, but because the waiting room was well lit, and it was night outside, what I saw was a reflection, rather than what was outside. But occasionally, lightning would strike in the area, and the night was lit up in a flash. Then the reflection would briefly disappear and I could see the trees, rain, wind, blowing leaves, the fury of God's storm. But, just as quickly, the reflection reappeared. A trick of light.

When we look through the glass darkly, if we are full of our own light, knowing as truth through speculation what is actually speculation, we see the reflection rather than the truth. And so whenever our picture misses the mark, but we accept it, we engage unknowingly in idolatry.

The graven image of God we carve from a mound of speculation in our minds hinders our understanding of God. On the other hand, by the careful study of God's word, we can grow not only in our understanding of God, but our efforts to become more Christ-like will be closer to the mark.

 

[Van]

1 Corinthians 9:19-23 NASB

For though I am free from all people, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may gain more.
To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might gain Jews; to those who are under the Law, I became as one under the Law, though not being under the Law myself, so that I might gain those who are under the Law; to those who are without the Law, I became as one without the Law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might gain those who are without the Law.
To the weak I became weak, that I might gain the weak; I have become all things to all people, so that I may by all means save some.I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.​

Why would Paul make such an all encompassing effort to persuade the lost, if God compels either rejection or acceptance?

 

[Van]

Luke 16:31 NASB

“But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”​

Here, a person's mindset is in view, if they are not open to God's word, they will not listen, and if they will not listen, they will not be persuaded.

 

[Van]

Act 17:2 - 4 NASB

And according to Paul’s custom, he visited them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
explaining and giving evidence that the Christ had to suffer and rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus whom I am proclaiming to you is the Christ.” And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with a large number of the God-fearing Greeks and a significant number of the leading women.​

Why explain to a group if 100% had been compelled to believe or not believe? Why give evidence? Why proclaim? And how is it some were persuaded? Why didn't God use a word meaning compelled to believe?

 

[canadyjd]

Yes!! Thank you Lord Jesus for not leaving salvation in my own hands. While I was in full rebellion with no desire for you or the things of the Spirit of God, You chose me, You drew me (compelled), You changed my nature by the power of God Holy Spirit, You gave me faith to believe, You covered me with Your righteousness, and You keep me secure in the hands of God forever.

I know salvation is all from you and none from me and I am humbled and rejoice in Your love for me.

Thank You Lord Jesus!!!!!!!

peace to you

 

[Van]

SNIP You drew me (compelled), You changed my nature by the power of God Holy Spirit, You gave me faith to believe, SNIP
peace to you

No mention of 1 Corinthians 9:19-23.
No mention of Luke 16:31.
No mention of Acts 17:2-4.

God attracted those born anew with His lovingkindness.
God changed our spiritual nature when He caused us to be born anew.
God credited the faith of those He transferred into Christ as righteousness.

God is not a Complusionist.

 

[canadyjd]

No mention of 1 Corinthians 9:19-23.
No mention of Luke 16:31.
No mention of Acts 17:2-4.

God attracted those born anew with His lovingkindness.
God changed our spiritual nature when He caused us to be born anew.
God credited the faith of those He transferred into Christ as righteousness.

God is not a Complusionist.

And so we disagree.

peace to you

 

[Aaron]

Years ago I sat in a waiting room, on a stormy night in a southern hospital. I faced a wall of glass, but because the waiting room was well lit, and it was night outside, what I saw was a reflection, rather than what was outside. But occasionally, lightning would strike in the area, and the night was lit up in a flash. Then the reflection would briefly disappear and I could see the trees, rain, wind, blowing leaves, the fury of God's storm. But, just as quickly, the reflection reappeared. A trick of light.

When we look through the glass darkly, if we are full of our own light, knowing as truth through speculation what is actually speculation, we see the reflection rather than the truth. And so whenever our picture misses the mark, but we accept it, we engage unknowingly in idolatry.

The graven image of God we carve from a mound of speculation in our minds hinders our understanding of God. On the other hand, by the careful study of God's word, we can grow not only in our understanding of God, but our efforts to become more Christ-like will be closer to the mark.

Okay, so far. We have to Remember that God is invisible. How does one make an image of an invisible God?

 

[Aaron]

Why would Paul make such an all encompassing effort to persuade the lost, if God compels either rejection or acceptance?

​

Love.

You're forgetting Paul's conversion experience.

 

[MrW]

Okay, so far. We have to Remember that God is invisible. How does one make an image of an invisible God?

Imagination.

 

[Van]

Okay, so far. We have to Remember that God is invisible. How does one make an image of an invisible God?

Jesus, incarnate with the divine essence, is how the image was made.

 

[Van]

​

Love.

You're forgetting Paul's conversion experience.

You are grasping at straws, and claiming you know what I have "forgotten" as if you are a mind reader.

The question, is why did Paul make such an all encompassing effort to PERSUADE the lost, if they all were either compelled to believe or not believe? Answer, He would not.

 

[canadyjd]

You are grasping at straws, and claiming you know what I have "forgotten" as if you are a mind reader.

The question, is why did Paul make such an all encompassing effort to PERSUADE the lost, if they all were either compelled to believe or not believe? Answer, He would not.

He was commanded by His Lord and His God to do so.

Paul understood a two fold function to proclaiming the gospel. To some, it brought life, to others it condemned.

peace to you

 

[Van]

He was commanded by His Lord and His God to do so.
Paul understood a two fold function to proclaiming the gospel. To some, it brought life, to others it condemned.
peace to you

LOL, did you see the word "PERSUADE" Iin caps? If the lost, as your doctrine wrongly claims, are unable to be persuaded, he could just preach the gospel within earshot and fulfill the command.

You doctrine denies the purpose of proclaiming the gospel, which is the reach the lost, not shout at the deaf.

 

[canadyjd]

LOL, did you see the word "PERSUADE" Iin caps? If the lost, as your doctrine wrongly claims, are unable to be persuaded, he could just preach the gospel within earshot and fulfill the command.

You doctrine denies the purpose of proclaiming the gospel, which is the reach the lost, not shout at the deaf.

LOL, you continue to misunderstand (deliberately or in ignorance) what the doctrines of grace teach.

I’ve never said anyone is unable to be persuaded. I’ve said they will not respond unless God Holy Spirit draws them, convicts them of the truth of sin and of Christ and Him crucified.

Paul had genuine love for the lost and so should we. I have no problem with anyone proclaiming the gospel, pleading, persuading folks to come to Christ.

I do have a problem with people thinking salvation is because of or depends on their efforts. Salvation is a work of God from start to finish.

Thst God has privileged us to be part should humble us and bring us joy. But never prideful assertions that people are lost or saved because of our efforts.

peace to you

 

[Van]

LOL, you continue to misunderstand (deliberately or in ignorance) what the doctrines of grace teach.

I’ve never said anyone is unable to be persuaded. I’ve said they will not respond unless God Holy Spirit draws them, convicts them of the truth of sin and of Christ and Him crucified.

Paul had genuine love for the lost and so should we. I have no problem with anyone proclaiming the gospel, pleading, persuading folks to come to Christ.

I do have a problem with people thinking salvation is because of or depends on their efforts. Salvation is a work of God from start to finish.

Thst God has privileged us to be part should humble us and bring us joy. But never prideful assertions that people are lost or saved because of our efforts.

peace to you

If I had a nickel for every Calvinist who falsely claimed an opponent did not understand the TULIP, I could go to the store.

Now you seem to claim someone compelled by "irresistible grace" is being persuaded by the human witness. That, Sir, is running from your doctrine.

I did not see why we need more laborers, if they do not contribute to the ministry.

But then, that is par for the course...

 

[Van]

Acts of the Apostles 19:26 NASB
“You see and hear that not only in Ephesus, but in almost all of Asia, this Paul has persuaded and turned away a considerable number of people, saying that gods made by hands are not gods at all.

Once again we see the inspired word choice indicating a human witness has persuaded, rather than "God has compelled with irresistible grace...."

Acts of the Apostles 28:24 NASB
Some were being persuaded by the things said by Paul, but others would not believe.

Again we see the inspired word choice indicating a human witness persuaded some, rather than the falsehood of God compelling by irresistible grace.