Is God judging America?

[evangelist6589]

Its Patriots Day but I say what has happened since 9/11 is God's judgment on America. The economy, the job market, the student loan explosions and many whom cannot pay back their debts, terrorism on our streets (Boston Marathon bombing), the weakness of the church in this country as the church has little to any influence, the level of wickedness in our schools, on TV, and the like are results of His Judgment!

In the past God has used certain nations to Judge and Gods people will suffer like the rest as Daniel suffered. The only thing that you can do is pursue righteousness and be out witnessing. You can witness to the lost and call the false converts to real repentance. Many claim to be saved, but are false converts and have a false profession of faith as they have submitted to a fake Jesus and an "easy-believism" gospel.

God is indeed Judging America and I am suffering as a result of it, but God has given me strength to not forsake my primary responsibility of evangelism and apologetics. Some say that I cannot witness unless I am perfect and without sin (such as being 100% debt free), but this is the devils trap of stopping the witnessing as satan hates bold, confrontational, Biblical evangelism that calls sinners to repentance!

Related books on what I have been speaking on.

The Vanishing Conscience- John MacArthur
Is God on Americas Side?-Erwin Lutzer

 

[JonC]

Since 9/11???

 

[Winman]

You can witness to the lost and call the false converts to real repentance.

What do you mean when you say "call the false converts to real repentance"?

Are these "false converts" the non elect? If so, according to your doctrine it is impossible for them to repent, and sort of silly of you to expect them to repent.

If these "false converts" are the elect, then how can they be false converts?

And what is "real" repentance to you? What does a person have to do to prove to you that they have "really" repented? Please be as specific as possible.

 

[evangelist6589]

What do you mean when you say "call the false converts to real repentance"?

Are these "false converts" the non elect? If so, according to your doctrine it is impossible for them to repent, and sort of silly of you to expect them to repent.

If these "false converts" are the elect, then how can they be false converts?

And what is "real" repentance to you? What does a person have to do to prove to you that they have "really" repented? Please be as specific as possible.

This one may help you understand.

http://assets.livingwaters.com/pdf/TrueAndFalseConversion.pdf

And my sermon as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MKoI4-6LNI
However considering your bent against Calvinism I doubt anything I say will convince you as you are very determined to argue and prove Calvinism wrong. You are not sincere and your questions are meant for an argument. No I am not taking your bait.

 

[JonC]

And what is "real" repentance to you? What does a person have to do to prove to you that they have "really" repented? Please be as specific as possible.

That’s a good question. And I'm not "bent" against Calvinism as you identify Winman (nor am I inclined to follow links during a discussion post).

 

[evangelist6589]

That’s a good question.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MKoI4-6LNI

REPENT and turn to God and submit to the Lordship of Christ.

 

[JonC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MKoI4-6LNI

REPENT and turn to God and submit to the Lordship of Christ.

What exactly do you mean by "repent" (how do you know another has repented) and what do you mean by submitting to the lordship of Christ?

I'm not clicking on links - I'm sure if you were asked on the street you wouldn't say "look at my youtube video" - (I hope, anyway).

 

[evangelist6589]

What exactly do you mean by "repent" (how do you know another has repented) and what do you mean by submitting to the lordship of Christ?

I'm not clicking on links - I'm sure if you were asked on the street you wouldn't say "look at my youtube video" - (I hope, anyway).

Turn from sins and then submit to Christs Lordship. Jesus himself must be your master. If one says He is, but your life does not have you going to church, reading the Bible, doing witnessing, praying, or having any fruit, then... But ultimately its for God to decide..

As you can see The Gospel According to Jesus has had a great impact on my thinking.

 

[JonC]

Turn from sins and then submit to Christs Lordship. Jesus himself must be your master. If one says He is, but your life does not have you going to church, reading the Bible, doing witnessing, praying, or having any fruit, then... But ultimately its for God to decide..

As you can see The Gospel According to Jesus has had a great impact on my thinking.

Evan,
I’m not trying to be difficult – please don’t take it that way. I know you don’t preach “ultimately God decides.”

I know “repent” means turning from your sins. Does one show legitimate fruit (you have here, going to church, reading the Bible, witnessing, praying as examples) before he or she can be saved? If there is no evidence of such fruit, does that mean that they are not saved? What do you mean by submitting to Christ’s Lordship?

 

[Winman]

This one may help you understand.

http://assets.livingwaters.com/pdf/TrueAndFalseConversion.pdf

And my sermon as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MKoI4-6LNI
However considering your bent against Calvinism I doubt anything I say will convince you as you are very determined to argue and prove Calvinism wrong. You are not sincere and your questions are meant for an argument. No I am not taking your bait.

What about paying people what you owe them as Ray Comfort said?

So the true believer brings forth the fruit of a new lifestyle, a lifestyle that is pleasing in the sight of Almighty God. If we are rooted and grounded in Christ, it should be evident. Jesus said, “I am the vine, you are the branches. He that abides in Me and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit.” Colossians 1, speaking of the gospel, says “the gospel brings forth fruit in the believer.”

Okay, what does the Bible mean when it speaks of fruit? Specifically? Well, #1, the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8). Zacchaeus had “more than tears.” He said, “Behold, Lord, if I’ve wronged anyone I’ll pay him back fourfold. I’ll give half my goods to the poor.” He knew God’s Law. He was a Godly Jew. That’s what brought him to Christ. It was the schoolmaster to bring him to Christ as a Godly Jew, knowing God’s Law. Or should I say, “a Jew that was humbled by the Law.” He said, “Behold, Lord, if I’ve wronged anyone I’ll pay back fourfold,” which is what the Law demanded.

I remember reading some years ago about a store that said in a newspaper they found a brown paper bag outside their door on a Monday morning. They opened it up and there was a pair of pants and a note that said, “I stole these from you on Friday, became a Christian on Sunday. Here’s the pants Monday. I’m sorry.” That’s fruit of repentance.

Are you going to pay back those persons you owe money to fourfold as Ray Comfort says here?

Isn't this putting a person back under the law?

 

[webdog]

Turn from sins and then submit to Christs Lordship. Jesus himself must be your master. If one says He is, but your life does not have you going to church, reading the Bible, doing witnessing, praying, or having any fruit, then... But ultimately its for God to decide..

As you can see The Gospel According to Jesus has had a great impact on my thinking.

So an unregenerate person is supposed to turn from sin? How? If regenerated, how can they not submit to Christ's lordship? Strikes against total depravity and irresistable grace.

Lordship Salvation is inconsistent and illogical.

 

[preacher4truth]

Nice sincere OP. Too bad winman and jonc have derailed it looking for an argument all-nighter. Don't feed them and they'll go away. :wavey:

To the OP the yes I believe God's judgment is already on our nation seen via the alternative lifestyle propagation.

 

[preacher4truth]

double post

 

[SolaSaint]

I think God judged us in Nov of 2008 with Mr. O being elected.

 

[Winman]

Nice sincere OP. Too bad winman and jonc have derailed it looking for an argument all-nighter. Don't feed them and they'll go away. Oh, I see webdog has also come along to continue derailing the thread as well. :wavey:

To the OP the yes I believe God's judgment is already on our nation seen via the alternative lifestyle propagation.

No, just asking Calvinists to be logical. How can you expect the non elect to repent, and how can the elect not truly repent?

How can you have a "false convert" in Calvinism? Only the elect can repent, so they must "really" repent, no??

The problem with most Calvinists is they they mindlessly accept it and put no real thought into it. If they did, it is likely that MANY would not be Calvinists.

And as for Lordship Salvation, you always get these folks going around telling other Christians how sinful they are. Usually the folks that do this represent themselves as the standard of holiness. And usually that falls apart real quick when you judge them as they love to judge others.

They can never tell you exactly how holy you have to be. Do you have to go to church 3 times a week or only once? Do you have to read your Bible every day, or can you skip a day now and then? Can you have debt or must you be debt free?

 

[InTheLight]

God is indeed Judging America and I am suffering as a result of it, but God has given me strength to not forsake my primary responsibility of evangelism and apologetics.

America is not God's chosen people, therefore America is not being judged. People are being judged, not nations.

Some say that I cannot witness unless I am perfect and without sin (such as being 100% debt free), but this is the devils trap of stopping the witnessing as satan hates bold, confrontational, Biblical evangelism that calls sinners to repentance!

I followed your debt thread and your witnessing thread(s). I challenge you to provide a link to a post where someone said you should not be witnessing because you are not perfect or are not debt free.

I'm beginning to think you read and hear what you want to hear and not what people actually say.

 

[JonC]

Nice sincere OP.

True. I believe that there are many ways in which America can be viewed as under the judgment of God and I don't question the sincerity of the OP.

Too bad winman and jonc have derailed it looking for an argument all-nighter.

If you post something, you should be able to defend it – or at least explain your views. The initial post made several statements that the less informed (such as myself) may need clarification. I genuinely do not know what Evangelist6589 means by witnessing to the false converts, calling them to “real repentance.” I don’t know how he identifies them (I thought we let them grow together until the harvest). Don’t need an all nighter (that’s plain silly, the posts will be here tomorrow).

My questions are not in opposition to Calvinism. I am not steering it to the alternative lifestyle propagation (although I believe it to be an appropriate direction). They are directed specifically to the claims of the post.

Don't feed them and they'll go away.

Not hungry and been here since 2001.

 

[evangelist6589]

Nice sincere OP. Too bad winman and jonc have derailed it looking for an argument all-nighter. Don't feed them and they'll go away. :wavey:

To the OP the yes I believe God's judgment is already on our nation seen via the alternative lifestyle propagation.

Thank you. I did not try and feed Winman but the man wants an argument very bad. John C is a moderate Calvinist and likes Erickson whom I respect. However Erickson is wrong on some areas, however he is a moderate Calvinist.

God has given this nation 12 years to repent and she has not. More judgment will be coming. Maybe another 911 or something worse. What if what I saw in the Steven Seagal film called the Patriot actually happens????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Patriot_(1998_film)

Chemical weapons being sprayed al over our cities.

 

[preachinjesus]

I don't think America matters to God as much as Americans think they matter to God.


The nation is meaningless, the people within are meaningful. God sees to borders in according blessing and salvation.

 

[JonC]

I don't think America matters to God as much as Americans think they matter to God.


The nation is meaningless, the people within are meaningful. God sees to borders in according blessing and salvation.

I agree. We often view ourselves in the “center” of things. But America was never a “Christian nation” - there is no such a thing. Spurgeon put it well when he noted that men go to hell in the lump, they are saved individually (along those lines anyway).

Scripture tells us the consequences of ungodliness. It’s hard to believe that America is not under this condemnation – but she is not alone.