Is God Male or Female?

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God is God, and if stupid, and I mean unbelievably stupid men think God...
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Great tactic here ... When you can't win on the merits of the argument, just slam your opponents intelligence. That is always the hallmark of civil discussion. People who have the facts on their side don't have to resort to this kind of tactic.

Larry...this is exactly what someone did to me a few days back...insulted my intelligence but you let it go and ONLY lectured me AFTER I had already been told about my posts by the lady who actually read it. Something's not right here.

 

I prefer terminology such as masculine/feminine which have a functional nuance.

The Spirit of God (while refered to as "He" in the Scripture) carries out the traditional role with the children of God assigned to the feminine side of humanity, giving birth, nurturing, teaching, comforting.


HankD </font>[/QUOTE]This is modren day nonsense! </font>[/QUOTE]Icthus...care to back up your charge there???

 

James, What do you mean by "care to back up your charge here"? It is evident from my posts on this thread, that it is Biblical nonsense to suppose that the Holy Spirit is either "feminine", or has "feminine qualities". Hank is clearly off the mark by his suggestion, that though the Holy Spirit is referred to as "He" in Scripture, that this does not mean that He is. By this it is clearly implied, that the Third Person in the Trinity is either "feminine", or an "it". I reject any such teaching as coming from the pit!

 

I totally agree!

 

The Spirit of God (while refered to as "He" in the Scripture) carries out the traditional role with the children of God assigned to the feminine side of humanity, giving birth, nurturing, teaching, comforting.


HankD </font>[/QUOTE]I see where you are coming from, Hank. But I believe that the qualities of caring, nurturing, comforting, etc. that we think of as feminine, are only feminine to us because God gave them to women (more so than to men though not exclusively to women).

These qualities of nurturing and comforting are originally part of God's character. That He decided to assign them to women does not mean, imo, that they are necessarily feminine, nor does it mean that God has feminine qualities.

 

Hello, Sky,
I agree woman is created differently and was created as a help-meet, but I strongly disagree that this means she is not equal to man! I think the Bible is clear that woman is equal to man, although God designed her for different roles.

Being a help-meet and being created second does not in any way make a woman of less value than man nor does it make or not equal to man.

 

Marcia, you are here speaking as a woman, and not as a Christian first. You must know that the Bible is very clear that man and woman is NOT equal. The woman is said to have been "created for the man" (1 Cor. 11:9), and the man is said to be the "head" of the woman. Not as some of the feminists will have us understand "kepahle", as mening "source", but, of the man having "authority", that is God given authority, over the woman. The fact that God created man first, and then the woman as a "helper" to the man, can only show that the two are not equal. I suggest that you study (not read) from the Greek if possible, 1 Corinthians 7, and 1 Timothy 2:8-15). You must not let your "feelings" distort you understanding of what Scripture really teaches.

 

Is this nonsense?

John 3
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 14
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

I used the words "role" and "assigned".

I never said the Spirit was or is of the feminine gender (although the Hebrew word for Spirit (Ruach) is feminine in gender). In fact, I was careful to say that Jesus Christ calls the Spirit Himself "he" masculine.

You have falsely accused me.


HankD

 

HankD, I have not falsely accused you. You laid too much emphasis on the Spirit as "assigned to the feminine side of humanity", which is not correct. Scripture clearly says that we are "born of God", not just the Spirit. Jesus also in Matthew 23:37, says, "how often would I have gathered thy chlidren together, as a hen gathereth her chicks under her wings". Also, we read in 1 John 2:1, where Jesus is also called our "Comforter". And, Jesus also says to learn of Him (Mat. 11:29). So, your assumption is incorrect about the Holy Spirit, and leaves open the door for what you say to be taken further, as you yourself point to the Hebrew for "spirit", which is feminine. You have to be very careful with the language employed, especially on the Holy Trinity.

 

Yes you have I simply pointed out the fact that God (in particular the Spirit), assumes what are typically feminine roles in humanity without any emphahsis. You are the one who assumed the "emphasis" by twisting my words into saying what I myself had not said, that the the Spirit is feminine. I said no such thing.

You yourself pointed out this very fact concering roles in the figure of speech in Matthew 23:37. Why is OK for you to point out this feminine role but not me?

Why do I have to be careful about what the original language Scripture is?

The word Spirit (Ruach) in Hebrew is feminine. It is what it is, there is no amount of care or emphasis (or lack thereof) that will change it.

But since you brought up the subject on being careful, perhaps you can explain why God chose the word Spirit Ruach in Hebrew to be feminine but the Spirit Himself is masculine and why you imply that I am careless when I point this fact out?

HankD

[ June 21, 2005, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: HankD ]

 

HankD, well you are still wrong in your assumption, that

"God (in particular the Spirit) assumes what are typically feminine roles in humanity without any emphahsis"

This is no where taught or even implied in Scripture. And, again I say that all you are doing is to open door to heretical conclusions of some.

I was NOT referring to the text in Matthew to show any "feminine" role of Jesus Christ. But, showing that this language was not unique to the Holy Spirit, but something that is part of the character of the Godhead.

That the Hebrew for "spirit" is in the feminine gender, is no problem at all, as you are aware, that this does not prove that the Holy Spirit is feminine. Just as the Greek for "spirit" is "pneuma", and neuter in gender, does not mean that the Holy Spirit is an impersonal being.

Agree with me or not, I still think that your language, especially what I have quoted above, it not Orthodox, and, IMO, dangerous.

 

OK, you are entitled to a wrong opinion.

Nevertheless you vindicated me with your own statement "but something that is part of the character of the Godhead".

Please define "something".
OK I'll do it for you.
It is a metaphor of the role of God as protector (a mother hen protecting her chicks). So I narrowed it to the Spirit, what difference does it make which person of the Trinity or the Godhead is in focus, the title of the thread is "Is God Male or Female" My answer is/was masculine/feminine has better nuance because it more functional and in keeping of the role(s) of the individual persons of the Godhead (I will cede that point, that the roles are somewhat interchangeble, although I can't find a passage which says anything about being born of the Son).

And... To be "born of God" could be a focus upon the Spirit as in

Acts 5
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Before you misinterpret me again please note I said "could be".

Here we agree, however you have only told me what the gender difference between the "word" and the "person" difference does NOT mean.

So, again, I challenge you to explain the significance of these facts since you have been so critical of this one point?

When you criticize it means you as the criticisor know something that the criticisee does not, so please tell me what it is.

And here again is the question:
Why is the Hebrew word Spirit (Ruach) feminine while the Spirit Himself is a masculine being and what is wrong or "not Orthodox" (whatever that means) with pointing that out?

HankD

 

Hank, please read my previous posts, this explains my objections

 

OK but your objections were based (at least partially) upon words that you put in my mouth.

Also, you didn't answer my question.

But I'll give a partial answer of my own from my library FWIW.

The chapter goes on to describe the several noun functions and attributes which define gender.

I'm not going to elborate and possibly invite more misinterpretations except to reiterate that it has to do with function and/or role (among other things) of the person, place or thing.

Any good Hebrew grammar has this information.

HankD

 

Marcia, you are here speaking as a woman, and not as a Christian first. You must know that the Bible is very clear that man and woman is NOT equal. The woman is said to have been "created for the man" (1 Cor. 11:9), and the man is said to be the "head" of the woman. Not as some of the feminists will have us understand "kepahle", as mening "source", but, of the man having "authority", that is God given authority, over the woman. The fact that God created man first, and then the woman as a "helper" to the man, can only show that the two are not equal. I suggest that you study (not read) from the Greek if possible, 1 Corinthians 7, and 1 Timothy 2:8-15). You must not let your "feelings" distort you understanding of what Scripture really teaches. [/QUOTE]

I agree that man has authority over the woman. In fact, we are studying 1 Tim. in SS right now and are on the very passage you refer to. I have been looking at it very carefully. I do not see where it says the woman has less value than a man does.

How can you say a woman has less value than a man? Frankly, I am shocked at this! Please show from the Bible how a woman has less value as a human being than a man does in God's eyes. Show us how men and women are not equal in worth in the eyes of God.

 

Marcia,

I don't really think that women have "less value" then men, so much as "different values" then men, so I concede to the point you're trying to make. I'm not at all ashamed of my place in God's realm, but I do feel my role is to "help mate to man," and that I was created differently.
I just don't necessarily think that being unequal means "worse than" either.
I'm not "equal" to my boss, but I'm just as valuable to our organization for the skills I bring vs the skills my boss brings.

 

5 Pages now, Wow

I cannot for the life of me figure out why so much quarrelsome emphasis has been put into such a fruitless discussion. Oh well, carry on.

 

Marcia, You seem to be shocked about something that I have not even said! Where do you read that I have said that women have "less value" than men?, or even "worse" than men? I have clearly shown that Scripture says that women are "not equal", to, and cannot have any "authority" over the man. In 1 Peter 3:7, women are said to be the "weaker vessel (sex)", and they should learn to accept this, and not try to be "macho", something that God never intended

 

There are two occasions in Scripture where women have had authoritative roles over men.

Deborah the prophetess: Judges 4-5.
Huldah the prophetess: (2 Kings 22, 2 Chronicles 34).

HankD

 

Do you not think that the office of a Prophetess is an exception, since she would be speaking on behalf of God? This is a mute argument, and has no bearing on what we are discussing here.