Is God Patient With His Decree?

[kyredneck]

God chose, the foolish things, the weak things, the lowly and despised things. So what is your point.

Even the foolish, weak, lowly and despised things still had to freely trust in God as He did not force them to did He?

God saves but He only saves those that trust in Him which is clearly shown in scripture.

Scripture: of him are ye in Christ Jesus.

Silverhair: of me am I in Christ Jesus.

 

[Charlie24]

Scripture: of him are ye in Christ Jesus.

Silverhair: of me am I in Christ Jesus.

The problem with the 5 point holders is they can't see that Christ died for the sins of whole world, making salvation possible for all men everywhere. They will not accept that even though John plainly said so.

So not being able to accept that, they see free will as a work making our own salvation possible.

It's really sad that it's seen that way, but there's nothing we can do but point out the error.

Christ made salvation possible, and when the Holy Spirit comes knocking on your door with the power of the Gospel, a simple choice is made in the heart of man.

 

[Silverhair]

Scripture: of him are ye in Christ Jesus.

Silverhair: of me am I in Christ Jesus.

You still do not get it KY. You think God loved you so much and you are so special that He picked you out of all the sinners to give you faith.

I actually trust what the bible says in regard to my hearing the gospel message and then trusting in Christ for my salvation.

Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Rom 5:2 through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.

You on the other hand trust the DoG/TULIP which is not found in scripture.

 

[canadyjd]

Since Jesus draws all men to Himself through the Gospel message, the only difference is that I did not resist and the other ….

Literally billions of people have lived and died never hearing the gospel message, never having the chance to accept or reject.

The word “all” can only mean all without distinction (ie both Jews and Gentiles) and cannot mean all without exception.

I noticed you completely ignored the words of our Lord Jesus that clearly state He calls (draws) His sheep BY NAME… specific call to specific people and His statement to others they did not believe because they weren’t His sheep.

I see it is futile to attempt to reason from scripture so I’ll leave you to your thread

Peace to you

 

[JesusFan]

No. The verse hinges on the previous 8 verses. It is not about the "all" but about the coming day of the Lord and God's timing. The "all" is not relevant to the passage.

God has already indicated displeasure in the destruction of the wicked but desires that even those who will perish would instead have come to repentance (Ezekiel 18 and 33, for example).

So one could interpret the passage to mean God is expressing that desire that even those who will remain condemned be saved.

But God also is waiting until until the appropriate time based on those who are being saved (Revelation 6). So the "all" could be more limited in scope.

In the end, however, the passage is more than that one verse. It does not hinge on the "all".

I was using that all in reference though to mean was it all in the sense of all people, or quantifying all of a selected group, His own elect?

 

[JesusFan]

There are so many examples of free will found the Scripture, I can't begin to count them.

Hosea 4:6

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

These Jews were rejecting the Law of God! The righteousness of God is found in the Law, but no man can keep the Law, specifically speaking of the 10 commandments.

The sacrificial system of the Law is where man met with God in knowledge of Salvation, in the sacrifice of Christ.

These Jews willfully rejected this knowledge in order to be saved, and in return the Lord rejected them.

We do not deny free will, but deny after the Fall we have full libertine version of it, as we are bound and constrained now by our sin nature

 

[Ben1445]

Literally billions of people have lived and died never hearing the gospel message, never having the chance to accept or reject.

The word “all” can only mean all without distinction (ie both Jews and Gentiles) and cannot mean all without exception.

I noticed you completely ignored the words of our Lord Jesus that clearly state He calls (draws) His sheep BY NAME… specific call to specific people and His statement to others they did not believe because they weren’t His sheep.

I see it is futile to attempt to reason from scripture so I’ll leave you to your thread

Peace to you

Romans 1 says all are without excuse.
I don’t comprehend how God can affirm that He has revealed Himself to every man and with the knowledge of God they reject Him. Because He has revealed Himself, because they know Him, because they reject Him, they are without excuse.
If it’s good enough for God to tell me that everyone has ample witness, it’s good enough for me to believe.

 

[JesusFan]

If God has, via calvinism's divine determinism, determined all that will happen then to say He is long suffering is illogical.

Only Hyper Calvinism hold to God having strict determination, as that would be fatalism

 

[JesusFan]

Literally billions of people have lived and died never hearing the gospel message, never having the chance to accept or reject.

The word “all” can only mean all without distinction (ie both Jews and Gentiles) and cannot mean all without exception.

I noticed you completely ignored the words of our Lord Jesus that clearly state He calls (draws) His sheep BY NAME… specific call to specific people and His statement to others they did not believe because they weren’t His sheep.

I see it is futile to attempt to reason from scripture so I’ll leave you to your thread

Peace to you

The good Shepard is calling out to Himself all those His death intended to be as the sin atonement

 

[JesusFan]

LOL your utilization of the Windows snipping tool proves nothing. I appreciate the effort though, keep at it and maybe you’ll get good enough to graduate to Photoshop.



If you’re going to ask me silly questions, then I’m going to give you silly answers. Of course I didn’t participate in my birth. Next, you’re inevitably going to ask me if I participated in my second birth. To that, I would answer yes. The Gospel was preached to me and I chose to accept it. That was my experience and it was real.

Did you choose to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior by your own free will then, apart from the Holy Spirit enabling you to be able to do such?

 

[JonC]

I was using that all in reference though to mean was it all in the sense of all people, or quantifying all of a selected group, His own elect?

All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

It is the same "all".

Paul was talking about out the Jews and Gentils being equal in terms of sin. There is no distinction.


In the verse Paul was not focusing on the ekect or all people but on the timing of God.

We already know that God desires that all men repent and be saved because this is said of those who do not end up being saved. God desires that nobody perish. God does not desire to see the wicked perish.

But God has a desire for His people as well.

 

[Silverhair]

Literally billions of people have lived and died never hearing the gospel message, never having the chance to accept or reject.

The word “all” can only mean all without distinction (ie both Jews and Gentiles) and cannot mean all without exception.

I noticed you completely ignored the words of our Lord Jesus that clearly state He calls (draws) His sheep BY NAME… specific call to specific people and His statement to others they did not believe because they weren’t His sheep.

I see it is futile to attempt to reason from scripture so I’ll leave you to your thread

Peace to you

I agree that is is futile to try reasoning with a closed mind.

Christ is the propitiation for the whole world, will draw all, that the world might be saved through Him, taste death for every man, a ransom for all, died for the ungodly.

So why don't you open your mind and trust the word of God rather than hold to a man-made philosophy from the 4th century?

 

[JesusFan]

@Ben1445 you have to remember that the cal's are saved before they even have faith.

This is a clear example of them trusting in what some man has told them rather than trusting the word of God.

The bible tells us, No faith No salvation.

When you look at scripture you have to wonder why they think they are saved.

@Ben1445 you have to remember that the cal's are saved before they even have faith.

This is a clear example of them trusting in what some man has told them rather than trusting the word of God.

The bible tells us, No faith No salvation.

When you look at scripture you have to wonder why they think they are saved.

No, you keep referring to hyper cals on this, as we do NOT hold to eternal Justification, as we hold all are lost sinners in Adam,. but God in His mercy have chosen us to be found in the Beloved, and the Holy Spirit enables us to make our election and calling sure

 

[JesusFan]

All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

It is the same "all".

Paul was talking about out the Jews and Gentils being equal in terms of sin. There is no distinction.


In the verse Paul was not focusing on the ekect or all people but on the timing of God.

We already know that God desires that all men repent and be saved because this is said of those who do not end up being saved. God desires that nobody perish. God does not desire to see the wicked perish.

But God has a desire for His people as well.

He also stated though that He has hatred and wrath for all of the wicked

 

[JesusFan]

The problem with the 5 point holders is they can't see that Christ died for the sins of whole world, making salvation possible for all men everywhere. They will not accept that even though John plainly said so.

So not being able to accept that, they see free will as a work making our own salvation possible.

It's really sad that it's seen that way, but there's nothing we can do but point out the error.

Christ made salvation possible, and when the Holy Spirit comes knocking on your door with the power of the Gospel, a simple choice is made in the heart of man.

We state that the death of Jesus was sufficient enough to save all lost sinners, but will be only effectual towards those he intended to atone for by the Cross, those whom he died in their stead

 

[JonC]

He also stated though that He has hatred and wrath for all of the wicked

Yes. We cannot ignore that God's wrath is against wickedness or that God has a desire that none perish. Scripture is not a list of choices we pick from. Both are truths.

 

[Silverhair]

No, you keep referring to hyper cals on this, as we do NOT hold to eternal Justification, as we hold all are lost sinners in Adam,. but God in His mercy have chosen us to be found in the Beloved, and the Holy Spirit enables us to make our election and calling sure

So you do not hold to divine determinism, the DoG/TULIP, the LBCF or WCF. Is that what you are saying?

State your view clearly as what I see coming from the C/R side is an errant philosophy the Augustine brought into the church in the 4th century and which Calvin and others carried forward to today.

The philosophy was wrong when Augustine did his work and it is still wrong today.

 

[Reynolds]

I do not have to change the meaning of the words of God or twist the verses to fit a philosophy as you have to do.

You indeed twist scripture. You simply fail to see that you do.

 

[JesusFan]

Yes. We cannot ignore that God's wrath is against wickedness or that God has a desire that none perish. Scripture is not a list of choices we pick from. Both are truths.

No, God stated his anger burns against the wicked person, not concept of wickedness

 

[JesusFan]

So you do not hold to divine determinism, the DoG/TULIP, the LBCF or WCF. Is that what you are saying?

State your view clearly as what I see coming from the C/R side is an errant philosophy the Augustine brought into the church in the 4th century and which Calvin and others carried forward to today.

The philosophy was wrong when Augustine did his work and it is still wrong today.

No, I hold that none of those that you listed here teach direct strict determination