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Is God Patient With His Decree?

Baptizo

Baptizo

Active Member
Romans 9:22-24 - What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Longsuffering - having or showing patience in spite of troubles, especially those caused by other people.

If the assertion is that God has decreed all things that come to pass, including the existence of vessels of wrath, how does it logically make sense that He is longsuffering with them?
 
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Ben1445

Member
Logically it doesn’t. John chapter 3 says whosoever believeth not is condemned already. We were all fitted for destruction until we believe. That is why preaching warns us to believe. If any man be in Christ he is a new creature. The same analogy is made in Scripture about vessels. (2 Tim. 2) But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
The longsuffering is that God does give opportunity to people to believe on Him.
Ephesians 2 says that we “were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.”
Everyone starts that way. But God is not willing that any should perish. His longsuffering is opportunity for everyone. Don’t get too caught up in decrees. Zephaniah is pretty clear in chapter two that there is opportunity before the Lord decrees. If you want to be concerned with decrees, study every decree God makes and look at who it affects, what it declares, and when it takes effect. There is no place in Scripture that says God has decreed because of foreknowledge. This is faulty human reasoning. God no more causes things by his foreknowledge than I do by mine. I am not to blame because I can see someone making a mistake and I am able to recognize the outcome before it happens. I have foreknowledge because of the intelligence God gave me. God has better intelligence and can even determine things to happen and will them to happen but He has not said that He has determined all things before they happen. (If anyone disagrees with me, don’t be upset with me, just remember, in your opinion, I can’t help it. I am predetermined to believe and answer this way.)
I believe in the sovereignty of God. I believe that no matter what I choose to do, I won’t ruin God’s plan. I believe that God is so sovereign that he can make people with the ability to make their own decisions.
 
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Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Baptizo said:
Romans 9:22-24 - What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Longsuffering - having or showing patience in spite of troubles, especially those caused by other people.

If the assertion is that God has decreed all things that come to pass, including the existence of vessels of wrath, how does it logically make sense that He is longsuffering with them?
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Good point! He hasn't decreed all things to come to pass regarding man.

This takes us back to Isaiah 1:18-20, with God's longsuffering toward man to be saved.

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it."

If Sovereign Grace is true in its points, then this Scripture wouldn't be.
 
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JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Baptizo said:
Romans 9:22-24 - What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Longsuffering - having or showing patience in spite of troubles, especially those caused by other people.

If the assertion is that God has decreed all things that come to pass, including the existence of vessels of wrath, how does it logically make sense that He is longsuffering with them?
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By allowing them their allotted years of life is being longsuffering
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Charlie24 said:
2 Peter 3;9

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
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And the hinge in that passage would revolve around just who is the intended 'All?"
 
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Charlie24

Well-Known Member
JesusFan said:
Think many of our "heated discussions" here would need to have one of the Apostles return to give to all of us the "right answer", so that is why need to be charitable to each other
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There is nothing in that verse that could lead one to believe anything other than all of humanity.

Only a Calvinist could possibly see that as a select group.
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Charlie24 said:
2 Peter 3;9

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
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Cephas was the apostle to the ___________ .

What you're imagining (along with 99.99% of evangelicals) that this passage is saying:

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should go to hell, but that all should come to repentance.

It doesn't say that.
 
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Charlie24

Well-Known Member
kyredneck said:
Cephas was the apostle to the ___________ .

What you're imagining (along with 99.99% of evangelicals) that this passage is saying:

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should go to hell, but that all should come to repentance.

It doesn't say that.
Click to expand...

When a person "perishes," because he didn't repent, what does that mean in the NT Greek?
 
Baptizo

Baptizo

Active Member
kyredneck said:
Yes, they're "afore prepared unto glory".

He has been incredibly patient with me, personally. How about you?
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I would say He has been patient with me, giving me many opportunities to repent. It wouldn’t make sense that He’d be patient with me if I was created as a vessel of wrath before I was born with absolutely no opportunity to repent ever.
 
canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Baptizo said:
Romans 9:22-24 - What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Longsuffering - having or showing patience in spite of troubles, especially those caused by other people.

If the assertion is that God has decreed all things that come to pass, including the existence of vessels of wrath, how does it logically make sense that He is longsuffering with them?
Click to expand...
God decreed the Hebrew people would suffer in slavery for 400 years because, as He told Abraham, the sin of the Amorites was not yet complete.

When He decreed Joseph that he sold into slavery by His brothers it was stated they meant it for evil but God meant it for good.

So, the answer to your question is found in the passage you quoted. It is logical for God to be longsuffering towards vessels of wrath because it displays the riches of His glory to vessels of mercy which He has also decreed.

Hope that helps

Peace to you
 
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