Is God Patient With His Decree?

[kyredneck]

I, for one, commend you for your consistency.

…but boring and wearisome…

Same ol’ claptrap over and over…

 

[Baptizo]

Dealing with the problem of evil is something everyone that studies seriously must do.

My position is that Adam had the libertarian free choice not to sin, whereas the Calvinist’s position is that Adam had no other choice but to sin. If God has decreed all things that come to pass, that would include Adam’s sin. I’ve heard others try to explain this away with the concept of primary and secondary causes, but I chalk all that up to philosophical thinking.

 

[canadyjd]

προγινώσκω
STRONG’S NUMBER:g4267
Dictionary Definitiong4267. προγινώσκω proginōskō; from 4253 and 1097; to know beforehand, i.e. foresee: — foreknow (ordain), know (before).
AV (5) - foreknow 2, foreordain 1, know 1, know before 1;
to have knowledge before hand

And to know in a relationship, which is what the context supports

Peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

My position is that Adam had the libertarian free choice not to sin, whereas the Calvinist’s position is that Adam had no other choice but to sin. If God has decreed all things that come to pass, that would include Adam’s sin. I’ve heard others try to explain this away with the concept of primary and secondary causes, but I chalk all that up to philosophical thinking.

I don’t know anyone that holds to the doctrines of grace that believe Adam had no choice but to sin.

What I have heard, and believe, is that before the fall, there was the ability not to sin. After the fall, there was no ability to avoid sinning. Once we are resurrected and in heaven, there will be no ability to sin.

Peace to you

 

[Ben1445]

And to know in a relationship, which is what the context supports

Peace to you

There was no relationship before the foundation of the world. I don’t believe in the little Cupid babies who leave heaven to be born on earth. (I don’t think you do either)
The relationship comes after the knowledge. The knowledge being who will believe in Him, the relationship also comes after belief. The knowledge is what comes before the relationship. It isn’t talking about knowing a person in a relationship. While in the same word family, it is a different word meaning.
There are other implications that are made using this word and they are not being made here. There is no use of the word in the book of Romans that supports that context.

 

[Baptizo]

What I have heard, and believe, is that before the fall, there was the ability not to sin.

But if God decreed it to happen, how could it be that Adam had the ability not to sin? It was inevitable that he would.

 

[canadyjd]

There was no relationship before the foundation of the world. I don’t believe in the little Cupid babies who leave heaven to be born on earth. (I don’t think you do either)
The relationship comes after the knowledge. The knowledge being who will believe in Him, the relationship also comes after belief. The knowledge is what comes before the relationship. It isn’t talking about knowing a person in a relationship. While in the same word family, it is a different word meaning.
There are other implications that are made using this word and they are not being made here. There is no use of the word in the book of Romans that supports that context.

The passage says, “those He foreknew…”. It does not say “those He foreknew would believe the gospel.”

Why would God need to “predestined” someone when He already knew they would come to Christ without His intervention?

That makes the word predestined meaningless.

Peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

But if God decreed it to happen, how could it be that Adam had the ability not to sin? It was inevitable that he would.

Adam did not yet have a sin nature. He was capable of not sinning. Same with Eve.

Being inevitable does not mean God caused it to happen. God certainly knew it would happen and allowed it to happen, but He did not cause the evil.

Adam, Eve, Satan bare all that responsibility.

Peace to you

 

[Ben1445]

The passage says, “those He foreknew…”. It does not say “those He foreknew would believe the gospel.”

Why would God need to “predestined” someone when He already knew they would come to Christ without His intervention?

That makes the word predestined meaningless.

Peace to you

He didn’t predestination them to be saved. They are predestined to become the sons of God.
It is the difference between what the prodigal son asked for and what he received.
God could have saved mankind and restored him to the garden as the keepers of the garden.
You’re adding meaning that isn’t there.
It’s far more than salvation that is being discussed here.
Don’t leave out the “to.” It’s a very important word that directs us to the real thing that we are predestined to.