Is God Racist

[Yeshua1]

Oh Gee. That sounds so 'scientific'. You must be so 'smart'.

God says nothing about a 'gene code'. God says He created Eve from Adams rib.

God says nothing about a black skin pigmentation as a dominant gene. I guess He is too simple to understand science's observations.

Why are the palms of the hands of the black man white? Why are the bottom of the feet of the black man, white?

Quantrill

The god of Islam, Allah, favors whites over blacks, as in their Heaven all are made white and all lost are made black, but Yahweh sees just human period!

 

[JD731]

One must observe the human family in the light of the creation of God. By that I mean that God is a trinity. He is three in one and one in three, but he is one. All of his creation bears the trinitarian signature and humanity is no exception. We are all one race but divided into 3 families within that race. all the earth came through Adam and Noah and those men makes us the common race. However, from there we are descended from Japheth, or Shem, or Ham. At first, on this side of the flood, all the families lived together and that did not work at all. A despot from the family of Ham, a man by the name of Nimrod, became the universal ruler over the people and led them in a revolt against God. He was a Cushite ( the name Cush means black) and the grandson of Ham. It was then that God confused their languages so they would have to separate themselves like he had commanded Noah when he got off the ark. God has always been a divider of men. Following is commentary of his division and Calvinists are not going to like this;

Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Can you tell us why?

27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

The table of nations are given in Ge 10. He sent the Shemites east for the most part and the Hamites south and the Japhethites west. These sons of these men became nations and separated themselves from one another on their continents. This is the thinking of God. It is his plan. The unity of mankind is a promotion of evil works because men are evil and evil begets evil. God in his bible always moves east to west. God wants separation. One can check that themselves. When the door of faith was opened to gentiles in a place where three continents met, Paul went west on all of his missionary journeys and technically speaking and according to Gen 10, to the gentiles, who were in the west. Thankfully, the west brought t the gospel of Christ back to the east and to Africa, what the scriptures calls the land of Ham. Our church supports several missionaries to those African lands at this very hour. God wants to save them but he has not turned over the stewardship of the gospel to them or the Asians. Where would we be 2000 years later if he had? One family is not better than another but God employs them differently.

God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son so we can be saved is true. He did not say he loved us four and no more. God is all wise. He knows what will work best. Separation works best according to Acts 17.

 

[Quantrill]

There is every genetic reason to believe Adam and Eve were black. Why does that bother you, Quantrill?

There are no lies in my comments. There are denials, by you, that genetics is somehow not from God.
There is a propagation of the racist theory of Ham that allows supremacists to think they are superior to another human by virtue of skin pigmentation...calling all non-whites inferior by virtue of skin pigmentation.
Clearly God's children are from every nation, tribe and tongue without distinction. In Jesus dialogue with the woman at the well (John 4) we see Jesus breaking down all the prejudice and racist views. Jesus makes all people one, under His Lordship. In Acts we see Peter being told that there is no cultural barriers in the Kingdom of God. There is no superior race of humans.

There is no reason to believe Adam and Eve were black other than you want to. Blacks have a history of declaring historical figures as black when they weren't. I guess they feel like they need it.

It is God that gave no blessing to Ham and cursed his descendants. It is not a question of supremacy or inferiority.

Again, you're not paying attention. The blessing and cursing upon Shem, Ham, and Japheth doesn't have anything to do with the Church. It has to do with all of mankind. In the Church there is no Jew or Gentile. In the world there is. And that world comes from the three sons of Noah, and the blessings and curses that go with them.

So, as we see God divides. He divides man by race resulting from the blessings and curse given by Noah.(Gen. 9:25-27). He divides the nations through the languages. (Gen. 10:5) He further divided them by dividing the earth. This is probably the division of the great seas. (Gen. 10:25) And later, Jesus would divide. (Luke 12:51)

It is God who brings division among mankind. Be it language, race, spiritual, or geographical. Why? Because division is a protection, a hindrance to the wickedness of man multiplying as it did prior to the flood. And what does man do? Just the opposite of God. Man want to unite. Break down those barriers of hate that separate us. Diversity is our strength, man says. God says it isn't. But, what does He know?

Quantrill

 

[AustinC]

There is no reason to believe Adam and Eve were black other than you want to. Blacks have a history of declaring historical figures as black when they weren't. I guess they feel like they need it.

It is God that gave no blessing to Ham and cursed his descendants. It is not a question of supremacy or inferiority.

Again, you're not paying attention. The blessing and cursing upon Shem, Ham, and Japheth doesn't have anything to do with the Church. It has to do with all of mankind. In the Church there is no Jew or Gentile. In the world there is. And that world comes from the three sons of Noah, and the blessings and curses that go with them.

So, as we see God divides. He divides man by race resulting from the blessings and curse given by Noah.(Gen. 9:25-27). He divides the nations through the languages. (Gen. 10:5) He further divided them by dividing the earth. This is probably the division of the great seas. (Gen. 10:25) And later, Jesus would divide. (Luke 12:51)

It is God who brings division among mankind. Be it language, race, spiritual, or geographical. Why? Because division is a protection, a hindrance to the wickedness of man multiplying as it did prior to the flood. And what does man do? Just the opposite of God. Man want to unite. Break down those barriers of hate that separate us. Diversity is our strength, man says. God says it isn't. But, what does He know?

Quantrill

Sigh, genetic function in humanity was created by God, in Adam. In fact, Eve's genetic code came from Adam.
The fact is that white skin is a recessive gene. As is blue eyes and blond hair. Most of the world is not white skinned, not blue eyed and not blond haired. White is recessive.
But, all skin color is irrelevant before God. God has chosen his children from every skin tone, every culture, every language he created.
Conclusion: God is not racist. Not one bit.

 

[Quantrill]

Quantrill, the racist Curse of Ham theory has been shown to be false.
The Curse of Ham: Getting It Horribly Wrong - TGC Africa
At age sixteen I was first told of the curse of Ham. A man a little older than me fleetingly tried to persuade me to join a right-wing militant organisation. His starting point was to try and persuade me from scripture that black African people were a cursed race descended from Noah’s son, Ham.

This was a startling conversation for me. I had been brought up reading my Bible but I was unaware of this curse. But having studied it now I am even further from being a recruit. Rather it has filled me with a deepening awareness of two things. First, I am increasingly aware of both the inclination of humans to turn everything to wickedness; and, secondly, of God’s awe-inspiring grace towards humans.

The Curse of Ham used for Wickedness

Here is the passage of Scripture in which the curse of Ham appears: “[Noah] drank of the wine and became drunk and lay uncovered in his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father and told his two brothers outside. Then Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it on both their shoulders, and walked backward and covered the nakedness of their father. Their faces were turned backward, and they did not see their father’s nakedness. When Noah awoke from his wine and knew what his youngest son had done to him, he said, “Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be to his brothers.” He also said, “Blessed be the LORD, the God of Shem; and let Canaan be his servant. May God enlarge Japheth, and let him dwell in the tents of Shem, and let Canaan be his servant”’ (Genesis 9:21-27).

I am increasingly aware of both the inclination of humans to turn everything to wickedness and of God’s awe-inspiring grace towards humans

So here is the infamous curse of Ham. This curse has played a part in the oppression of black African nations through the centuries. Most particularly this influence has been present in the Atlantic slave trade, in Nazi Germany and in Apartheid South Africa. However, there are two things we need to understand about this passage before we succumb to the grace-reducing misapplication of the curse of Ham.

Getting the Facts Straight

Scripture tells us that Noah had seventeen grandsons. And from their names we have a pretty good – if not perfect – idea which nations developed from which grandchildren. Four of those grandchildren were Ham’s four sons: Cush, Egypt, Put, and Canaan (Genesis 10:6). The Canaanites settled in the Middle East. They appear frequently in the Old Testament of the Bible. For the most part they have dissolved into other nations or died out. Egypt is even more obvious. For it is a nation that appears often in scripture and is still present today.

There is no record of a biblical curse put on the descendants of Cush or the nations of Africa

In biblical Hebrew, the name ‘Cush’ seems to mean ‘Ethiopian’ or ‘blackness’. Black African nations seemingly developed from the offspring of Cush. But that is exactly where the so-called curse of Ham is misapplied. The curse never fell on Ham or on Cush. For whatever reason, not truly given in the text, it fell on Canaan. In Genesis 9:25 Noah pours out his anger, ‘Cursed be Canaan!’ There is no record of a biblical curse put on the descendants of Cush or the nations of Africa.

Getting the Context Straight

But there is a broader context to this curse of Ham. All mankind is under a curse – whether we are offspring of Shem, Ham or Japheth. Adam and Eve, our original forebears, already disobeyed the Lord God when they ate of the forbidden fruit: “of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die” (Genesis 2:17).

Just before the event known as the curse of Ham, God did wipe out all of mankind, except for Noah’s family, in a flood. God immediately issued a chilling warning to those who survived the flood: “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image” (Genesis 9:6). God clearly harbours no illusions about the righteousness of mankind despite the awful punishment that he had just meted out! Even though God almost completely wiped out mankind in the flood, he had no doubt that they would sin again—and soon!

Whether you are of the line of Shem, Ham or Japeth there is no distinction; all fall short of the glory of God

The New Testament does not alter this message one bit. When quoting Psalm 14 Paul says, “there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:22-23). Whether you are of the line of Shem, Ham or Japeth there is no distinction; all fall short of the glory of God.

Awe-Inspiring Grace instead of the Curse of Ham

And yet incomprehensibly God shows an unwavering commitment to the people of the earth. He chose not to wipe out the entire human race in the flood. He chose to reiterate his command to “be fruitful and multiply” (Genesis 9:1), and he chose to make a covenant with Noah and his offspring (Genesis 9:9).

Nine generations later; God reaffirmed this covenant to Abraham: “in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed” (Genesis 12:3). Centuries later Jesus instructed his followers to make “disciples of all nations” (Matthew 28:19). Paul confirms this teaching; that this grace, despite our wickedness, is available to anyone from all nations in Jesus Christ: “the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe” (Romans 3:22).

The exhilarating, time-tested, awe-inspiring blessing of grace is available to all of us who believe in Jesus Christ

Whether you are a descendent of Shem, Ham or Japheth; whether you have a curse like the curse of Ham upon you or not; you live under the curse of death. Your ongoing inclination is to sin, to turn everything to wickedness.

But the exhilarating, time-tested, awe-inspiring blessing of grace is available to all of us who believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God. There is now no curse that can separate us from the love of Christ and nothing in all of life that can beat the joy of this God-given grace.

There is now no curse that can separate us from the love of Christ and nothing in all of life that can beat the joy of this God-given grace

Stephen Le Feuvre trained as a teacher and has worked in teaching and school management for 20 years. Stephen attends Emmanuel Church, Port Elizabeth, South Africa and enjoys being involved in preaching and teaching at Emmanuel Church, Word of Life Church, and through Precept bible classes.

He has been married to his wife, Alex, for 19 years and has four children that he now home schools. His regular blog on Bible and life can be found at rejoicingwiththetruth.com.

The descendants of Ham went to Africa. Hams descendants involve more than just the black people in Africa. But the blacks in Africa are from Ham.

As I have said, Ham received no blessing. This is a point you continue to ignore. Even if there was no curse, there was no blessing. But there was a curse. And that curse went to a descendent of Ham. And because it went to the youngest son, it covered all of Ham's brothers before him. And that curse involved servitude, slavery. This doesn't mean every descendent of Ham is in shackles and chains. It means the race of Ham on the world stage would be a race of servitude.

Arthur Custance in his 'Doorway Papers' makes a very good point here. Noah could not curse Ham without cursing himself. The greatness of a son was attributed to the father. See (1 Sam. 17:55) Concerning David after he slew Goliath, Saul asked whose son is he. The honor would go to his father.

Likewise, you have God doing the same with Solomon. See (1 Kings 11:9-12). Solomon sinned. But God would not bring the judgement upon Solomon. Why? For David's sake. But David was long gone. But, if God had judged Solomon it would have brought dishonor to David's name. And God wasn't going to do it. The judgement still fell, but it fell on Solomon's son.

So it is with the 'no blessing' given to Ham but his descendants are under the curse.

This is not to be confused, as you are doing with fall of Adam and Eve and the curse upon the earth. The serpent was cursed and so was the earth, but Adam and Eve were not. (Gen. 3:14,17)

Again, and again, this is not talking about the Church, though the Church will be impacted by it. It is talking about all mankind. Just because all of mankind have the opportunity to come to Christ, does not change these prophecies of Noah to all of mankind.

Quantrill

 

[percho]

Psa_86:9 All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name.

Act_17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Deut 32:8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.

Have the bounds fluctuated with the numbers?

If so, racial?

 

[percho]

One must observe the human family in the light of the creation of God. By that I mean that God is a trinity. He is three in one and one in three, but he is one. All of his creation bears the trinitarian signature and humanity is no exception. We are all one race but divided into 3 families within that race. all the earth came through Adam and Noah and those men makes us the common race. However, from there we are descended from Japheth, or Shem, or Ham. At first, on this side of the flood, all the families lived together and that did not work at all. A despot from the family of Ham, a man by the name of Nimrod, became the universal ruler over the people and led them in a revolt against God. He was a Cushite ( the name Cush means black) and the grandson of Ham. It was then that God confused their languages so they would have to separate themselves like he had commanded Noah when he got off the ark. God has always been a divider of men. Following is commentary of his division and Calvinists are not going to like this;

Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Can you tell us why?

27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

The table of nations are given in Ge 10. He sent the Shemites east for the most part and the Hamites south and the Japhethites west. These sons of these men became nations and separated themselves from one another on their continents. This is the thinking of God. It is his plan. The unity of mankind is a promotion of evil works because men are evil and evil begets evil. God in his bible always moves east to west. God wants separation. One can check that themselves. When the door of faith was opened to gentiles in a place where three continents met, Paul went west on all of his missionary journeys and technically speaking and according to Gen 10, to the gentiles, who were in the west. Thankfully, the west brought t the gospel of Christ back to the east and to Africa, what the scriptures calls the land of Ham. Our church supports several missionaries to those African lands at this very hour. God wants to save them but he has not turned over the stewardship of the gospel to them or the Asians. Where would we be 2000 years later if he had? One family is not better than another but God employs them differently.

God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son so we can be saved is true. He did not say he loved us four and no more. God is all wise. He knows what will work best. Separation works best according to Acts 17.

Very good.

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

 

[percho]

There is no reason to believe Adam and Eve were black other than you want to. Blacks have a history of declaring historical figures as black when they weren't. I guess they feel like they need it.

It is God that gave no blessing to Ham and cursed his descendants. It is not a question of supremacy or inferiority.

Again, you're not paying attention. The blessing and cursing upon Shem, Ham, and Japheth doesn't have anything to do with the Church. It has to do with all of mankind. In the Church there is no Jew or Gentile. In the world there is. And that world comes from the three sons of Noah, and the blessings and curses that go with them.

So, as we see God divides. He divides man by race resulting from the blessings and curse given by Noah.(Gen. 9:25-27). He divides the nations through the languages. (Gen. 10:5) He further divided them by dividing the earth. This is probably the division of the great seas. (Gen. 10:25) And later, Jesus would divide. (Luke 12:51)

It is God who brings division among mankind. Be it language, race, spiritual, or geographical. Why? Because division is a protection, a hindrance to the wickedness of man multiplying as it did prior to the flood. And what does man do? Just the opposite of God. Man want to unite. Break down those barriers of hate that separate us. Diversity is our strength, man says. God says it isn't. But, what does He know?

Quantrill

Ham, (in Hebrew: חָם‎ Hebrew pronunciation: [ˈħam]) according to the Table of Nations in the Book of Genesis, was the second son of Noah and the father of Cush, Mizraim, Phut and Canaan.

All of his descendants or just Canaan?

 

[Quantrill]

The god of Islam, Allah, favors whites over blacks, as in their Heaven all are made white and all lost are made black, but Yahweh sees just human period!

Yet He chose the Jews above all peoples. (Deut. 7:6)

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Ham, (in Hebrew: חָם‎ Hebrew pronunciation: [ˈħam]) according to the Table of Nations in the Book of Genesis, was the second son of Noah and the father of Cush, Mizraim, Phut and Canaan.

All of his descendants or just Canaan?

I believe all of Ham's descendants are affected. See my post #(65). Remember, in this prophecy of Noah, Ham received no blessing. In this threefold division of mankind, Shem and Japheth received blessing. Ham did not.

Quantrill

 

[JD731]

[QUOTE="percho, post: 2636203, member: 9897"]Ham, (in Hebrew: חָם‎ Hebrew pronunciation: [ˈħam]) according to the Table of Nations in the Book of Genesis, was the second son of Noah and the father of Cush, Mizraim, Phut and Canaan.

All of his descendants or just Canaan?[/QUOTE]


The order of birth of the three sons of Noah is as follows.

First, they were triplets.

Gen 5:32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

The order of birth;

1) Japheth
2) Shem
3) Ham

The scriptures;

Gen 10:21 Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to him were children born.

Gen 9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

Shem is the second born son of God and it is through his line that God sends his Son, Jesus Christ, to save our souls. God uses the second son to illustrate the second birth, i.e. Cain and Abel, Ismael and Isaac, Esau and Jacob, etc. The first son is always a type of the natural man. I do not know what, if anything, a third son represents in typology. I do not have any light on that.

The "second man" proof:

1 Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

 

[AustinC]

Yet He chose the Jews above all peoples. (Deut. 7:6)

Quantrill

Was Abram a Jew?

 

[Yeshua1]

Yet He chose the Jews above all peoples. (Deut. 7:6)

Quantrill

Yes, but he also choose them to bring thru them the Messiah, who is the blessing for all nations and peoples!

 

[AustinC]

Yes, but he also choose them to bring thru them the Messiah, who is the blessing for all nations and peoples!

Right. Through Abraham will all nations be blessed. All of history revolves around the promised one as Redeemer and King. God chose Abraham as the seed through which he would become man and Redeem the children of the promise.

 

[Yeshua1]

Right. Through Abraham will all nations be blessed. All of history revolves around the promised one as Redeemer and King. God chose Abraham as the seed through which he would become man and Redeem the children of the promise.

And God will bring into the Kingdom of the Messiah peoples out from every language and color of skin, how is that being racist?

 

[Quantrill]

Was Abram a Jew?

What does (Deut. 7:6) say?

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Yes, but he also choose them to bring thru them the Messiah, who is the blessing for all nations and peoples!

So? God still chose the Jews above all other races of people. Why? Because they would be of Shem, who received the blessings from Noah.

See how consistent God is.

Quantrill

 

[Yeshua1]

So? God still chose the Jews above all other races of people. Why? Because they would be of Shem, who received the blessings from Noah.

See how consistent God is.

Quantrill

God choose them due to his own pleasure, as NOTHING in them any better then anyone else!

 

[AustinC]

What does (Deut. 7:6) say?

Quantrill

Deuteronomy 7:6 “For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

Was Abram a Jew? This verse doesn't say he was.

When did the term Jew begin being used? Hint: It was after the Kingdoms split.

Now, what does Romans 9:6-8 say?

"But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring."

Guess what. The children of the promise come from every nation, tribe and tongue. So much for that racist curse you think God has established.

 

[Quantrill]

God choose them due to his own pleasure, as NOTHING in them any better then anyone else!

Where did I ever say any was chosen because they were better than anyone else?

God's choosing was based upon the race of Shem as that is where the blessing was to be found.

Quantrill