Is GOD the Author of the Bible?

[37818]

@JonC,
Your proposal that when Paul had it to be written, "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord," he was not speaking Holy Scripture, I have never heard such a falsehood about this.passage. It has been years since I studied it.

There are two parts to it.

Married couples who are both believers.

The second part. Believers who have unsaved partners.

The Lord only gave instructions to married believers.

1 Corinthians 7:10, And unto the married command, yet not I, but the Lord, . . .

But to believers who have an unbelieving spouse.
1 Corinthians 7:12, But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: . . .
The Lord, had not spoken about unbelievers staying or leaving a marriage to believers.

Mark 10:2-12.

 

[JonC]

@JonC,
Your proposal that when Paul had it to be written, "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord," he was not speaking Holy Scripture, I have never heard such a falsehood about this.passage. It has been years since I studied it.

There are two parts to it.

Married couples who are both believers.

The second part. Believers who have unsaved partners.

The Lord only gave instructions to married believers.

1 Corinthians 7:10, And unto the married command, yet not I, but the Lord, . . .

But to believers who have an unbelieving spouse.
1 Corinthians 7:12, But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: . . .
The Lord, had not spoken about unbelievers staying or leaving a marriage to believers.

Mark 10:2-12.

You misunderstand.

I believe that the verse stating what follows to be Paul's words and not God's words IS Scripture.

That is why I believe the words presented by Scripture as not being from God but from Paul are not from God but from Paul.

I believe Paul's words to be a part 9f Scripture that we are to consider as defined by Scripture (as godly advice). But I believe that ALL of Scripture is true, even when Scripture declares that advice is from Paul and not from God.


The reason I believe the passage to be correct is I believe Scripture to be correct....ALL of Scripture.

My issue with your conclusion is that you believe a verse is incorrect, that Scripture when stating something as godly advise but not from God somehow is an error of Paul that made it into Scripture.

 

[37818]

You misunderstand.

I believe that the verse stating what follows to be Paul's words and not God's words IS Scripture.

That is why I believe the words presented by Scripture as not being from God but from Paul are not from God but from Paul.

I believe Paul's words to be a part 9f Scripture that we are to consider as defined by Scripture (as godly advice). But I believe that ALL of Scripture is true, even when Scripture declares that advice is from Paul and not from God.


The reason I believe the passage to be correct is I believe Scripture to be correct....ALL of Scripture.

My issue with your conclusion is that you believe a verse is incorrect, that Scripture when stating something as godly advise but not from God somehow is an error of Paul that made it into Scripture.

I have rethought 1 Corinthians 7:12. When Paul wrote "the rest speak I, not the Lord." He wasn't saying the instruction was not Holy Scriptural truth. But rather the counter point of what the Lord previously had taught. Re, 1 Corinthian 1:10. "unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord." Mark 10:2-12.

 

[Van]

Odd fuss of late on this Forum over red-letter words in the Gospels as being inspired (or must be believed in order to be saved) but all the other writings of Paul, Moses, John, Peter, David, etc, may or may not be inspired or needed for salvation or of somehow lesser, non-authoritative value.

The first historic "Fundamental of the Faith" rests on the simple fact that God inspired His Word (exact words in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek with exact grammar, definitions, word choice) completely and fully. We call this by the shorthand theological term "verbal plenary inspiration".

God the Spirit is the author of it all. Some of it may not be very inspiring but it is all inspired, breathed by God. This was a direct event, NOT a secondary or tertiary inspiring of other writings, later translations, etc. (Such an attack on inspiration and a mockery of God perfectly speaking to man by claiming for ANY man-made words, books, music, etc. English or German or Spanish translations can be good or poor, but God didn't "breathe" them. If you want to argue a second level inspiration, go to the Bible Version thread and rant on.

Thought I'd just start a thread to make sure we all believe God authored the Bible, every word, and that it is perfect. If you don't believe this, then maybe think about walking away from the Fundamental Baptist forum here on the BB. Please.

Did not read the subsequent posts, but wanted to chime in with a hardy Amen. The original autographs of scripture were God' breathed. All 66 books of my bible reflect reliable and trustworthy copies of those inspired texts The copies we now have are useful for instruction, even as an obsolete and replaced historical example, such as many of the Old Covenant practices.

 

[JonC]

I have rethought 1 Corinthians 7:12. When Paul wrote "the rest speak I, not the Lord." He wasn't saying the instruction was not Holy Scriptural truth. But rather the counter point of what the Lord previously had taught. Re, 1 Corinthian 1:10. "unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord." Mark 10:2-12.

That makes sense to me.

 

[MrW]

Except for a few instances (where Paul states his opinion and clarifies it is not a command from God) I believe all of Scripture is God's Word. I think Paul's clarification concerning his opinion (Paul making note that it is his words) shows the rest as being from God.

I believe Paul’s so-called “opinions” are statements he received from the Holy Spirit, but not words spoken by the Lord Jesus while He was on the earth, but equally Scripture from God.

 

[JonC]

I believe Paul’s so-called “opinions” are statements he received from the Holy Spirit, but not words spoken by the Lord Jesus while He was on the earth, but equally Scripture from God.

None of Paul's words were statements spoken by Christ while He was on Earth (Paul became a Christian during the Church age, after the Resurrection). They are not "so-called opinions" because Scripture states that they are Paul's opinion.

If they were not Paul's opinion then every Christian who has married has sinned by so doing. BUT as Paul's opinion the passage gives us valuable information about the ministry and even our walk in this world.


But lets go with your position.

Why do you believe God told Christians not to marry?

Why did God nullify the previous statement to "be fruitful and multiply", that children are a blessing...or are Christians simply to have children out of wedlock in order to obey God's words not to marry?

What do you believe it would look like today if Christians obeyed this command and only non-Christians married and had a family?

Why do you believe Scripture presented these words from God as being Paul's opinion rather than from God?

Why did Paul shift from taking credit for those instructions to giving credit to God following stating what he claimed was his opinion?

 

[JonC]

The problem is not only that Scripture presents those words as being from Paul and not God but that following the passage Scripture shifts back to stating the next is from God.

IF those words were not Paul's AND not from God then Scripture is wrong.

I'd say Paul's words were his opinion, instructional and pastoral. It is Paul's advice based on his experience. This is why it should not be ignored, but it is also why Scripture specifically states that it is Paul's words and not God's words. His words should be considered while God's words are to be obeyed.

 

[MrW]

One question at a time: Why do you say God commands Christians not to marry?

 

[MrW]

When Paul says, “I say, not the Lord,” I believe he is saying, “This is not a quote from Christ when He was on earth, but this is me, Paul, saying what I have learned from Him in my three years in Arabia.”

If you believe Paul’s “opinion” is not backed up by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, well, that’s your choice. I accept what I have believed.

 

[JonC]

When Paul says, “I say, not the Lord,” I believe he is saying, “This is not a quote from Christ when He was on earth, but this is me, Paul, saying what I have learned from Him in my three years in Arabia.”

If you believe Paul’s “opinion” is not backed up by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, well, that’s your choice. I accept what I have believed.

The problem with this is twofold:

1. Paul was saved after the Church had formed and after Jesus had been crucified. Paul did quote Jesus, but only briefly when He appeared to Paul on the road to Demascus. Jesus did not teach Paul directly for three years in Arabia (specifically Arabia Petrea).

2. Paul specifically claims that this was his opinion, and this claim made its way into Scripture. IF Scripture is wrong here, then where else could it be wrong?


Nobody is saying that Paul's experience and opinions were not influenced by the Spirit. His opinion that Chriatians should remain single has merit. But if the Bible is correct then this should be taken as Paul's opinion and not words from God.


The biggest problem for your position is that it denies the accuracy of Scripture (you ate saying that Scripture is wrong in two places - Paul stating these words are not a command from God but his opinion based on his experience AND Paul switching back to God's words after giving his opinion.

 

[MrW]

The problem with this is twofold:

1. Paul was saved after the Church had formed and after Jesus had been crucified. Paul did quote Jesus, but only briefly when He appeared to Paul on the road to Demascus. Jesus did not teach Paul directly for three years in Arabia (specifically Arabia Petrea).

2. Paul specifically claims that this was his opinion, and this claim made its way into Scripture. IF Scripture is wrong here, then where else could it be wrong?


Nobody is saying that Paul's experience and opinions were not influenced by the Spirit. His opinion that Chriatians should remain single has merit. But if the Bible is correct then this should be taken as Paul's opinion and not words from God.


The biggest problem for your position is that it denies the accuracy of Scripture (you ate saying that Scripture is wrong in two places - Paul stating these words are not a command from God but his opinion based on his experience AND Paul switching back to God's words after giving his opinion.

I don’t believe you understand what I am telling you.

I will leave it at this:

1. All the Holy Bible is Scripture.

2. All Scripture is inspired of God.

Even Paul’s “opinions”.

 

[MrW]

None of Paul's words were statements spoken by Christ while He was on Earth (Paul became a Christian during the Church age, after the Resurrection). They are not "so-called opinions" because Scripture states that they are Paul's opinion.

If they were not Paul's opinion then every Christian who has married has sinned by so doing. BUT as Paul's opinion the passage gives us valuable information about the ministry and even our walk in this world.


But lets go with your position.

Why do you believe God told Christians not to marry?

Why did God nullify the previous statement to "be fruitful and multiply", that children are a blessing...or are Christians simply to have children out of wedlock in order to obey God's words not to marry?

What do you believe it would look like today if Christians obeyed this command and only non-Christians married and had a family?

Why do you believe Scripture presented these words from God as being Paul's opinion rather than from God?

Why did Paul shift from taking credit for those instructions to giving credit to God following stating what he claimed was his opinion?

God did not tell Christians not to marry. That’s a strawman argument.

 

[David Lamb]

God did not tell Christians not to marry. That’s a strawman argument.

Paul did not forbid marriage either. Indeed writing to Timothy, he said:

“Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.” (1Ti 4:1-3 NKJV)

He even calls forbidding marriage a doctrine of demons!

 

[JonC]

God did not tell Christians not to marry.

I agree. It was Paul's opinion that Christians should remain single. He had reasons for that opinion and his reasons should be considered as they apply to Christians marrying. But it was, as Paul stated, his words and not God's.

 

[JonC]

Paul did not forbid marriage either. Indeed writing to Timothy, he said:

“Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.” (1Ti 4:1-3 NKJV)

He even calls forbidding marriage a doctrine of demons!

I agree. Nobody was talking about forbidding marriage.

Paul said that his opinion is that it is better that Christians not marry. But he also said this was his opinion based on his experience and not God's words.

Had Paul attributed those passages to God rather than his own words them it would be forbidding marriage.

 

[JonC]

I don’t believe you understand what I am telling you.

I will leave it at this:

1. All the Holy Bible is Scripture.

2. All Scripture is inspired of God.

Even Paul’s “opinions”.

I understand what you ate saying. I agree with your two statements above.

The difference is I also believe that Scripture is wholly without error. So when Paul states that it is better for Christians not to marry, the exception being if they lack self-control, I believe Scripture is correct when it states that this is Paul's opinion. This doesn't mean Paul's opinion os not inspired by God. It doesn't mean it isn't Scripture.

But it does mean that I believe Scripture to be correct that this is Paul's opinion rather than God's words (which would constitute a command). I believe where Scripture records "I (Paul), not the Lord" say.... and then "not I, but the Lord" say.... that this is accurate because I believe the Bible is without error.


So where you have to believe that Scripture contains an error (that "I and not the Lord" really means "the Lord") and that a Christian who possesses self-control must remain single, I believe the Bible is 100% true.

 

[MrW]

I understand what you ate saying. I agree with your two statements above.

The difference is I also believe that Scripture is wholly without error. So when Paul states that it is better for Christians not to marry, the exception being if they lack self-control, I believe Scripture is correct when it states that this is Paul's opinion. This doesn't mean Paul's opinion os not inspired by God. It doesn't mean it isn't Scripture.

But it does mean that I believe Scripture to be correct that this is Paul's opinion rather than God's words (which would constitute a command). I believe where Scripture records "I (Paul), not the Lord" say.... and then "not I, but the Lord" say.... that this is accurate because I believe the Bible is without error.


So where you have to believe that Scripture contains an error (that "I and not the Lord" really means "the Lord") and that a Christian who possesses self-control must remain single, I believe the Bible is 100% true.

Paul did not say it is better for Christians not to marry. He said, “For the present distress, it is better not to marry.” The church was under persecution. Is a lot easier to bear persecution when it’s you being persecuted and not your wife and children. So for the distress, the persecution the church was undergoing at that time, it was better to not be married. And I fully believe that was the message from God to Christians during that timeframe.

 

[JonC]

Paul did not say it is better for Christians not to marry. He said, “For the present distress, it is better not to marry.” The church was under persecution. Is a lot easier to bear persecution when it’s you being persecuted and not your wife and children. So for the distress, the persecution the church was undergoing at that time, it was better to not be married. And I fully believe that was the message from God to Christians during that timeframe.

Paul did say it was better. He said it was "good" for Christians not to marry BUT if that person could not excessive self-control then marriage would be better.

You are right about the reason for Paul's opinion. You are wrong that it applied only to a specific time (the reason also forms good principles we should remember about prioritie).

But yes - Paul was basing his opinion on his own experience. That is why I said his words are useful even to those who marry.

 

[kyredneck]

He had reasons for that opinion and his reasons should be considered as they apply to.....

....that particular point in time.

29​	But this I say, brethren, the time is shortened, that henceforth both those that have wives may be as though they had none;
30​	and those that weep, as though they wept not; and those that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and those that buy, as though they possessed not;
31​	and those that use the world, as not using it to the full: for the fashion of this world passeth away. ! Cor 7

7​	But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore of sound mind, and be sober unto prayer: 1 Pet 4

17​	And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
18​	Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour. 1 Jn 2

1​	The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, [even] the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified [it] by his angel unto his servant John;
2​	who bare witness of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, [even] of all things that he saw.
3​	Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1

3​	And as he sat on the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

34​	Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24