Is Grace Conditional?

[Tom Butler]

I could be way off base here, but does God resist grace from the proud, does that mean proud as in proud most of the time, self centered most of the time, showing no Christ like progress.

I don't know. (Gee,that was hard to write, since my grandchildren think I know everything). In I Peter5, Peter is writing to believers. He has just admonished the elders to feed their flocks, not lording it over them, but as examples of a servant's heart. Then in v 5 he turns to the young folks, telling them to submit to the elders. It appears that this admonition may have been given because the young folks were not submitting--either to the elders or to each other.

It's possible, then that Peter was correcting a problem here. I'm guessing that the young folks were immature little snots, not showing proper respect and flaunting something they had that not everybody had. These young men (and maybe women) emphatically did not have a self-esteem problem--and that very well could have been the problem Peter was addressing.

This is just off the top of my head after reading the text and context. Gee, I sure have written a lot after saying "I don't know."

 

[TCGreek]

1. Today, I had some time to think about that text in James and this is where my mind led me:

a. If grace is awarded to someone because of some virtue they possess, it is no longer grace, for grace by definition is unmerited favor and is supported by Romans 4:2-4.

b. Therefore, the humility that one possess, the is honored by God with the given of more grace, must be a humility bestowed by God.

2. Only a humility bestowed by God accords with the scriptural definition of grace, for God's bestowal of more grace is not conditioned upon anything is us.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Yes. Grace is conditional.

In Romans 6:1-2 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, the grace may abound? God FORBID. How shall we, that we dead to sin, live any longer therein?"

Paul tells us, we cannot continuing sinning while under the grace same time. We cannot take advantage of God's grace while sinning same time.

Also, in Romans 6:15 say, "What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God FORBID."

We cannot sin while under the grace same time.

We must buried sins and serve sins no more again. We are commanded walk after Spirit. Or, if we walk after flesh, then we shall dead(spiritual). It is not speak of lost relationship with Christ, or 'lost reward', or lost millennial kingdom. It is speak of our salvation.

Yes, grace is conditional.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[TCGreek]

Yes. Grace is conditional.

In Romans 6:1-2 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, the grace may abound? God FORBID. How shall we, that we dead to sin, live any longer therein?"

Paul tells us, we cannot continuing sinning while under the grace same time. We cannot take advantage of God's grace while sinning same time.

Also, in Romans 6:15 say, "What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God FORBID."

We cannot sin while under the grace same time.

We must buried sins and serve sins no more again. We are commanded walk after Spirit. Or, if we walk after flesh, then we shall dead(spiritual). It is not speak of lost relationship with Christ, or 'lost reward', or lost millennial kingdom. It is speak of our salvation.

Yes, grace is conditional.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

How did you make that leap? There is nothing in those texts that teach that grace is conditional.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

TCGreek,

Care to explain 6:1-2, 15, and even explaining whole chapter 6 too?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[TCGreek]

TCGreek,

Care to explain 6:1-2, 15, and even explaining whole chapter 6 too?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

1. DP, I'm not the one who went to Rom 6 to show that grace is conditional. Why then do I need to explain it?

2. I simply objected to the use of those texts. You must now show me why they must stand. That is the nature of debating.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

TCGreek,

You seem avoid to explain Romans 6:1-2 & 15. Is this passage bothering you? I can easily see this passage show us grace is conditional.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Romans 6:1,2,15 do not put a condition on grace, DPT. They only say since we are under grace, we should not continue in sin.

The only condition for Grace is that we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and His shed blood.

 

[TCGreek]

TCGreek,

You seem avoid to explain Romans 6:1-2 & 15. Is this passage bothering you? I can easily see this passage show us grace is conditional.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

This passage in no way bothers me.

1. Paul begins with a question: "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be!

2. He has just mentioned the superincrease of grace; some were of the notion that because of this superincrease, the believer can become antinomian. Paul says no. A superincrease of grace does not mean a license to sin.

3. So Paul uses Ch. 6 to explain to them that grace does not mean a license to sin. He then points them to what baptism symbolizes, a break from the old life to embrace the new life in Christ.

4. Therefore, the believer should not let sin reign in his body, nor should he present his members to sin as instruments of unrighteousness (vv.12, 13).

5. Rather, believers should give thanks to God for the freedom from sin, and so present their member as instruments of righteousness (vv.15-22).

6. You do not have to agree, but this is my take on Romans 6, and I see nothing in it that tells me grace is conditional.

 

[Amy.G]

Romans 6 says that we are not slaves to sin because we have died to it, buried with Christ through baptism (of the Holy Spirit) and we have been raised as Christ to newness of life. We are not under law (and the penalty of it), we are under grace and the life it gives us.
Therefore, we should use our mortal bodies in righteous ways, not use it to sin.

 

[TCGreek]

Romans 6 says that we are not slaves to sin because we have died to it, buried with Christ through baptism (of the Holy Spirit) and we have been raised as Christ to newness of life. We are not under law (and the penalty of it), we are under grace and the life it gives us.
Therefore, we should use our mortal bodies in righteous ways, not use it to sin.

Amy, why is the baptism mentioned baptism of the Spirit? Why couldn't it be water-baptism?

 

[JustChristian]

Romans 6:1,2,15 do not put a condition on grace, DPT. They only say since we are under grace, we should not continue in sin.

The only condition for Grace is that we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and His shed blood.

Jesus said to the rich young ruler:

Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.
Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

He said to Nicodemus:

Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

These are conditions for grace to be effective. Someone must be completely changed when they accept Christ and they must accept Jesus and not money or power or sin as the Lord of their life. Otherwise they, like the rich young ruler, will ultimately turn their back on Christ and reject salvation.

 

[belvedere]

These are conditions for grace to be effective. Someone must be completely changed when they accept Christ and they must accept Jesus and not money or power or sin as the Lord of their life.

So, would you say that this is something that the believer does (being "completely changed"), or something that God does? I'm just trying to understand your position, because it sounds like you're saying that there are additional "works" that one must do to be saved, besides belief. (Romans 10:9)

 

[JustChristian]

So, would you say that this is something that the believer does (being "completely changed"), or something that God does? I'm just trying to understand your position, because it sounds like you're saying that there are additional "works" that one must do to be saved, besides belief. (Romans 10:9)

What do you say? Chist told the rich young ruler to DO SOMETHING:

Luk 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

The ruler was unwilling to DO SOMETHING so he went away unsaved.

Luk 18:23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
Luk 18:24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

How would Jesus have answered your question about "additional works?"

 

[Brother Bob]

Romans 6:1,2,15 do not put a condition on grace, DPT. They only say since we are under grace, we should not continue in sin.

Everyone always adds the word "should", when scripture say :

" God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? "

 

[Amy.G]

Amy, why is the baptism mentioned baptism of the Spirit? Why couldn't it be water-baptism?

Sorry TC, I missed your question.

Water baptism doesn't save. It doesn't "do" anything. It's the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that changes the heart and produces fruit. The new birth is spiritual birth. Only the Holy Spirit gives us the new birth.

 

[J. Jump]

I enjoyed reading this thread. Once again we have so many that try to pigeon hole grace into only talking about receiving everlasting life. God's grace goes beyond that. And His grace is conditional once you are one of His children.

Grace is God doing for you what He requires of you and then giving you credit as if you did it yourself. But God is not going to work in and through someone that doesn't want to be worked in and through therefore His grace is conditioned upon your obedience and faithfulness.

If you are proud (disobedient and unfaithful) you are not going to see God's grace.

 

[belvedere]

What would I say about works being a condition of salvation? Well, I sure couldn't say it better than this:

Ephesians 2:8-9 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)


8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift— 9 not from works, so that no one can boast.

 

[TCGreek]

Sorry TC, I missed your question.

Water baptism doesn't save. It doesn't "do" anything. It's the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that changes the heart and produces fruit. The new birth is spiritual birth. Only the Holy Spirit gives us the new birth.

I do not believe in baptismal regeneration either, but couldn't Paul be referring to the water-baptism here as that dramatic symbol?

 

[Amy.G]

I do not believe in baptismal regeneration either, but couldn't Paul be referring to the water-baptism here as that dramatic symbol?

I guess that's possible. But in Romans 6:4 we read:

Rom 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

I think we need the Spirit to walk in newness of life, because He gives life.