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Is Grace Conditional?
- Thread starter TCGreek
- Start date
What do you mean by "seal their commitment to Christ"?TCGreek said:1. Upon receiving the Spirit, believers where baptized in water to seal their commitment to Christ.
2. Those believers identified with Christ death, burial and resurrection in baptism.
Were they not committed until they were dunked?
Amy.G said:What do you mean by "seal their commitment to Christ"?
Were they not committed until they were dunked?
1. Other may beg to differ with me, but when I read the book of Acts, immediately every believer was baptized.
2. Water baptism was commanded by Jesus as the first step of discipleship (Matt. 28:18-20). How can we demonstrate our total commitment to Him and not be baptized in obedience to Him?
I see what you mean. I was baptized a few months after I was saved and I don't remember doing it out of a sense of obedience, but I felt compelled to do it. I suppose it was obedience though. I just may not have understood that at the time. I had a rough time after I was saved. I had no one to disciple me and I was attending a charasmatic church that "messed with my head". I changed to the Baptist church and that's where I was baptized. I've been a Baptist ever since.TCGreek said:1. Other may beg to differ with me, but when I read the book of Acts, immediately every believer was baptized.
2. Water baptism was commanded by Jesus as the first step of discipleship (Matt. 28:18-20). How can we demonstrate our total commitment to Him and not be baptized in obedience to Him?
I believe that water baptism is a symbol of our committment to Christ, but the real baptism is of the Holy Spirit. (not in the charasmatic way)
Think about it, TC ---- Grace was certainly conditional upon Noah building the ark ... else he wouldn't have been saved, now would he?TCGreek said:1. Today, I read somewhere that the grace that Noah found in Genesis 6:8 was conditional. The writer was "able" to prove that grace was conditional by going to Hebrews 11:7, where it says "By faith..."
skypair
Are you suggesting that men are saved without repenting and coming to faith?
TCGreek said:1.The Bible nowhere says that grace was conditioned upon Noah building the Ark.
2. A conditioned-grace is no grace at all. If grace is something we cannot earn by either what we do or what is in us, how can it be conditioned?
gerald285 said:Are you suggesting that men are saved without repenting and coming to faith?
Are you suggesting that to repent and believe make grace conditional?
You did not answer MY question.
TCGreek said:Are you suggesting that to repent and believe make grace conditional?
gerald285 said:You did not answer MY question.
I cannot answer a question that is internally inconsistent.
gerald285 said:I stand on what i said. Grace IS conditional!
Then my friend, you will have to stand alone.
No I stand with the Lord. You are alone. He calls for repentance and faith for grace to be given.
TCGreek said:Then my friend, you will have to stand alone.
gerald285 said:No I stand with the Lord. You are alone. He calls for repentance and faith for grace to be given.
If you stand with the Lord, then you should be able to show Scripture to support that position.
You first. Then I will give the scripture.
TCGreek said:If you stand with the Lord, then you should be able to show Scripture to support that position.
gerald285 said:You first. Then I will give the scripture.
1. If you're in for a meaningful debate, then I'll oblige you.
2. Acts 18:27 says, "When he arrived, he greatly helped those who through grace had believed" Acts 18:27 (ESV, emphasis mine). A perfect example of grace preceding faith. "Through grace" is instrumental to their faith.
That is ridicules! The passage not suggesting that they were given grace before they were saved or before they came too faith.
Look at scripture.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
The faith must come first, not after.
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
A condition for grace Repent.
Grace has conditions. They are repentance and faith. No repentance and faith and no grace
Look at scripture.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
The faith must come first, not after.
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
A condition for grace Repent.
Grace has conditions. They are repentance and faith. No repentance and faith and no grace
TCGreek said:1. If you're in for a meaningful debate, then I'll oblige you.
2. Acts 18:27 says, "When he arrived, he greatly helped those who through grace had believed" Acts 18:27 (ESV, emphasis mine). A perfect example of grace preceding faith. "Through grace" is instrumental to their faith.