Is Harry Potter and Narnia good for the church?

[Boanerges]

Originally posted by Johnv:
Oh, well, if David Cloud's website says so, then it must be so .

The fact that this is David Cloud's website only serves to weaken your credibility. Why anyone would give a pharisee like Cloud the time of day is beyond me.

Because I know that it torques out you and your other anti KJVO comrades John.

 

[Boanerges]

Much like the Passion John, Narnia is another allegorical "Jesus", and another allegorical "gospel"

 

[Dr. Bob]

Speak on allegories and stories all you want but DO NOT, PLEASE DO NOT bring the KJVonly debate nonsense into this thread or this forum. That is for the Bible/Version Forum only.

Thank you.

BTW, neither Harry nor CS Lewis is good for the church. My opinion.

 

[Dr. Bob]

And anyone bringing David Cloud is to support their position is truly holding a weak position.

Boan, let it go. John, drop it.

Or take it to the other forum. If I have to stop the car and come back there

 

[eloidalmanutha]

“I didn’t really think a lot about the religious aspect,” director Andrew Adamson stated. “I know C. S. Lewis never really intended it to be allegory, but he definitely wrote from a place of his own belief, and a lot of people get that from the book… People can interpret the movie the same way, they can apply their personal belief and interpret the movie the same way they interpret the book.”

"Even Aslan himself, the great Lion and Narnia’s true King, though commonly described as a “Christ figure,” isn’t really an allegorical or symbolic representation of Jesus — because he’s actually much more than that. Literarily, Aslan is nothing less than an imaginary portrayal of the very Divine Person known in our world as Jesus Christ, appearing in another world as the Lion Aslan.

In other words, it isn’t just that there are “parallels” between Aslan and Jesus. Rather, Lewis imagines that the same God who created our world and sent His Son to be born here from a Virgin also created the world of Narnia and sent that same Son there as a Lion. (God the Father is known in the books as “the Emperor-Beyond-the-Sea.”)"

The Narnia filmmakers, though, seem to take the line that the religious meaning of the Narnia stories is there only if you want it to be. Producer Mark Johnson went so far as to state that “Lewis himself never really saw these as Christian books. Obviously he is a Christian, and imbued them with a lot of his values, but they are not specifically that. So we wanted to be true to the books, so that if you find religious meaning in the books, hopefully you’ll find that in the movie also.”

“A lot of people know that C. S. Lewis is a well-known Christian apologist,” said Tilda Swinton, whose chilly performance brings the White Witch vividly to life. “And for a lot of people for whom that’s important, that religious allegory will be important. But there are many, many millions of other people for whom it’s not. And it’s all still theirs… But the Christians are welcome,” she added jocularly.

Striking much the same note, William Moseley, the film’s Peter, said, “I think a lot of things come down to what you believe, and who you are, and your individual perception of good or evil. Whether that’s religious, or whether that’s just your personal point of view. When I first read the books, I didn’t see the religious aspects a tiny bit… But then I was told that it was a religious story. And I still thought it’s an amazing story.”

For Adamson, it seems, “It is finished” had another meaning entirely. “The thing that I wanted, the thing I was really going for there, was Aslan’s sadness at having to get to the point… I didn’t want to send home the message that war is an ideal solution. I wanted Aslan to actually regret the fact that he was going to have to kill the White Witch. I wanted a line where he could really just turn to Peter and say, ‘It’s over. It’s done.’ ” (In spite of this, it seems likely that one of the screenwriters did know the reference, and that the line found its way into the screenplay for that reason.)

Adamson has actually said that the Witch “has to be as smart, as strong and as intense as Aslan the Lion in her confrontations with him.” Asked about this, the director qualified his earlier comments, conceding that “Aslan was always intended to be more powerful,” but added that he “wanted to make her a significant adversary, so that it wasn’t just an easy thing for Aslan to deal with.” Johnson called Aslan and the Witch “worthy adversaries,” although he argued that the film does depict Aslan as “the smarter of the two, because he’s figured out the Deep Magic in a way that she hadn’t.” (Lewis wouldn’t have cottoned to the idea of Aslan “figuring out” anything.) Later, though, Adamson acknowledged that Aslan is “omnipotent.”

http://www.decentfilms.com/sections/articles/2636

===============================

Ok .... we have Jesus in this movie, produced, directed, and acted by unbelievers who have no clue Who He is, portrayed as a mystical lion who is equal in power to a white witch ...... sounds like a great "witnessing" tool to me

 

[eloidalmanutha]

anyone know what "turkish delight" is an allegory for? ..........

 

[Boanerges]

Oh...I don't know. It kinda smells like hashish to me.

Could someone please pass the "hookah" of the new age church?

 

[eloidalmanutha]

"After years of chilly relationships between Hollywood generally — and Disney in particular — and certain segments of American Christendom, LWW could represent at least a partial thawing. For Christians who’ve felt for years that Hollywood wasn’t willing to acknowledge their existence, Disney’s church-based overtures may be a welcome sign of change. For their part, Disney executives must surely be delighted to have a film, or even a franchise, with the potential to bring in even viewers previously determined to avoid anything with a Disney logo."

http://www.decentfilms.com/sections/articles/2636

ca ching ca ching - I hear laughter all the way to the bank ...........

 

[eloidalmanutha]

In an essay published in The New York Times in 1956, Lewis said people thought he wrote the books intending to say "something about Christianity to children" using allegoric fairy tales.

"This is all pure moonshine," he wrote. "I couldn't write in that way at all. Everything began with images. ... At first there wasn't even anything Christian about them; that element pushed itself in of its own accord."

"A recent Narnia event at the church drew 700 participants, with separate programs for adults and children. While the parents discussed religious themes and symbolism, the children made crafts and played games, including one in which those tagged by the White Witch turned into statues and couldn't move until Aslan breathed on them, bringing them back to life - as in the book."

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/13348664.htm

 

[Boanerges]

I wonder what Roy Disney thinks of the film? Some other thoughts.

http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=PV04E02


http://www.stopgaydays.com/2004_shareholders_meeting1.htm

It seems that the new age church is happy to hold hands across the water with anyone who produces any film that is even remotely Christian,even if in name only.

So would going to see this movie, be classified as good stewardship? And if a church buys a whole block of tickets, would that be good stewardship in reference to the tithe? Let's feed the hungry instead.

Matthew 25
35 For I hungered, and you gave Me food to eat; I thirsted, and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger, and you took Me in;
36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.
37 Then the righteous will answer, saying, Lord, when did we see You hungry, and fed You; or thirsting, and gave You drink?
38 And when did we see You a stranger, and took You in; or naked, and clothed You?
39 And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and came to You?
40 And answering, the King will say to them, Truly I say to you, In so far as you did it to one of these, the least of My brothers, you did it to Me.

[ December 07, 2005, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: Boanerges ]

 

[tinytim]

I have never let my boys read or watch HP.
The other day, my youngest son has been bugging me to watch HP on TV and I said no.

He then asked me if watching HP would send him to hell. (He was being a smart aleck at this point BTW, he's 10)
I said no.
So he gets my wife to call our pastor's wife and ask her. She said, "It won't send you to Hell, but God will be mad at you"
when my wife told my son this guess what his reaction was.....


....


This is so typical of today's Christian...


...


He shrugged his shoulders and said, "OK as long as I don't go to Hell, God will get over being mad at me."

I thought to myself, wow what a sermon illustration, but then our pastor used it tonight in Bible Study. The whole church broke out in laughter. Comedy hits home sometimes.

 

[TaterTot]

LOL, thats great! Gotta love kids!!!

 

[Jimmy C]

FYI - a recipe for Turkish Delight - no mention of ganja or any other weed.

Bo - have you ever heard Jesus represented as the Lion of the Tribe of Judah? I much prefer the thought of Jesus as represented by a Lion - strong, prtective and some to fear than Jesus as my Homeboy as I see on some t shirts.

I think its great that my Church can take a hollywood movie and turn it into an opportunity for witnessing to unbelievers - if you chose to protest thats up to you.

---------- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.02

Title: TURKISH DELIGHT
Categories: Candies, Turkish
Yield: 1 servings

2 c Sugar
2 tb Cornstarch
1 c Water
1/2 ts Cream of tartar
1 tb Flavoring *
Food coloring **
1/2 c Toasted nuts, chopped ***
Confectioners' sugar

* Flavorings: rose, mastic, strawberry, orange or
lemon. ** Food coloring: red, yellow, green or orange
(depending on flavoring used) *** Nuts: almonds or
pistachios

Dissolve sugar and cornstarch in water. Add cream of
tartar. Boil to 220 degrees F. Cover pot the last 5
minutes. Add flavor and food color. Add nuts.

Pour into oiled shallow pan. When cool, cut into
squares and roll each piece in sifted powdered sugar.
Store in plastic bag.

From: The Complete Greek Cookbook, by Theresa Karas
Yianilos, Avenel Books, New York.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob:
And anyone bringing David Cloud is to support their position is truly holding a weak position.

Boan, let it go. John, drop it.

My apologies. The only reason I pointed it out was because the souce was a KJVO source. I will take your advice.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
anyone know what "turkish delight" is an allegory for? ..........

Your ignorance is quite obvious here. Turkish delight is a Christmastime candy, common in England in the era the book was written.

 

[Boanerges]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
anyone know what "turkish delight" is an allegory for? ..........

Your ignorance is quite obvious here. Turkish delight is a Christmastime candy, common in England in the era the book was written. </font>[/QUOTE]I am not sure how "ignorant" that question was. Here is another persons opinion:

Here we come to a very strange thing that C.S. Lewis included in his story. As if the references to liquor and tobacco were not enough, he makes a very covert reference to hashish, or marijuana.

When Edmund meets the "White Witch" she gives him first a strange drink, as described previously. She then asks him what he would like best to eat, and to his reply, makes him a box of Turkish Delight by means of her magic. Lewis portrays "Edmund" as eating this greedily, and the more he eats the more he wants it. In other words, he becomes addicted. This is explained in that the witch (or "Queen") knows that the Turkish Delight is "enchanted" and that once a person has tasted it, they will want more and more of it and if allowed to would eat themselves to death. She promises "Edmund" all the Turkish Delight he can eat for the rest of his life if he will bring his sibling to her, and he leaves after begging for just one more piece. (p.32-36; The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe)

Lewis' Turkish Delight is not an enchanted candy from fairyland, though.

In the book Marihuana: The First Twelve Thousand Years by Ernest Abel (New York and London, Plenum Press, 1980), we find out where Lewis got his "inspiration" for "enchanted" Turkish Delight.

"As in India, local officials in Egypt were alarmed at the large numbers of inhabitants who used hashish directly or in confections, many of which were exported to Europe. Among the variety of confectionery treats containing hashish that were sent abroad were 'Turkish Delight,' square pieces of hashish containing sugar and gelatin which were a particular favorite of the students at Cambridge University in England.(p. 133.)

"It was not that the English were above using drugs that altered consciousness, but rather that they were more content with alcohol, and saw little need to experiment with mind-altering drugs. Those who did were either members of minority groups, artists, writers, criminals, or students. It was the isolated cases that came to the attention of the press and gave the impression that hashish was rampant in parts of England.

"One such case took place in 1886 in the dormitories of staid old Cambridge University. According to a newspaper report, some students had obtained 'Turkish Delight' and not being experienced users of the hashish-laden confection, had taken an overdose and became ill as a result. Oxford also had its share of cannabis users. (pp. 165-166.)"(1)

http://www.balaams-ass.com/journal/homemake/lewisale.htm

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Boanerges:
I am not sure how "ignorant" that question was. Here is another persons opinion:

Okay, so how is it that the opinion of a two bit piano maintenance guy with a website called "baalam's ass" counts more than anyone else's, as though he were a scholar? Answer: it doesn't. The dude is entitled to his opinion. But his opinion is just that: his opinion.

Lewis' Turkish Delight is not an enchanted candy from fairyland, though.

No, it's real candy that is as commonplace as hot apple cider. It's amusing that you are making hooplah over it based on the fact that you haven't heard of it (it's not very common in the US, but common in England).

When Edmund meets the "White Witch" she gives him first a strange drink...

I fail to see the problem. The White Witch is the bad guy. You're making an issue of the bad guy doing a bad thing. In actuality, though, the book doesn't describe what hte hot drink is. The typical reader presumes it is wassail or hot chocolate, both drinks that coincide with the Christmas custom of eating turkish delight.

 

[Boanerges]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Boanerges:
I am not sure how "ignorant" that question was. Here is another persons opinion:

Okay, so how is it that the opinion of a two bit piano maintenance guy with a website called "baalam's ass" counts more than anyone else's, as though he were a scholar? Answer: it doesn't. The dude is entitled to his opinion. But his opinion is just that: his opinion.</font>[/QUOTE]As usual John, you left out a minor detail. He was quoting from a published book about the history of Marijuana. His opinion was based on the facts expressed in the book. Turkish delight, is infact, another name for hashish laden candy. Is that what Lewis had in mind? Dunno, but we are back to "have no appearence of evil".(you might remember that from the Message thread)

 

[Gold Dragon]

Marijuana is also found in "cupcakes" or "muffins". All references to cupcakes or muffins may mean marijuana and books that include those words must have the appearance of evil and should be avoided.

 

[ccrobinson]

pssst...

In TLTWATW, the enchanted Turkish Delight is analogous to sin. If you compare it to marijuana and a resulting addiction, you're just seeing what you want to see and no amount of discussion is going to change that.

Didn't hippies make marijuana brownies too? I guess eating brownies is out now. Wouldn't want anybody thinking my wife's brownies have marijuana in them.

Can we dispense with the "appearance of evil" argument now?

Those against The Chronicles of Narnia have more leg to stand on if you focus on witchcraft, enchantments, etc., than you do with an alleged drug reference.