OldRegular
Well-Known Member
It is obvious! Same reason we are not Jew or Gentile!
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Is Israel Obama's next target?
- Thread starter SolaSaint
- Start date
It is obvious! Same reason we are not Jew or Gentile!
Sorry, but I am free, gentile and male. I think that Scripture is talking about the ground at the Cross is level and Heaven will be based upon a different system that we have on earth but we are not there yet, not even in church because there is sin inside the church and Satan likes to preach there.
The gentiles rejected Judaism and both Jews and gentiles have rejected Christianity but the occidental gentiles were horrible pagans before they became Christians and the oriental gentiles are still some of the most horrible pagans in the history of the world.
I don't want to start an argument with you, but you are Abraham's adopted son and you are no more a true Jew than any other Greek is because you are not a physical descendent of Abraham. I hate to start quoting Paul to you but the fact is that you are not bond, you are not Jew, and you are not female. So I am guessing that the categories of the children of Adam disappear once and for all inside the Eastern Gate, and that they are still visible here in vale of tears.
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Gotcha:
"Every act taken by Israel is orchestrated by God, and should be condoned, supported, and even praised by the rest of us."
Israeli Extremists and Christian Fundamentalists: The Alliance
The West Bank settlements are legal and an act by Obama would try to circumvent the law, but then the Democrats don't care about legality but power.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I support the nation of Israel because they are the only democracy in the middle east and as long as we support them they will be our friend. However, Israel has made it clear that they will do what is best for Israel, I wish all Americans had that attitude.
Having said that I think it is nonsense to claim that Israel still constitute the Chosen People of God. Jesus Christ told the Jews {Israel} before they conspired with Rome to crucify Him:
Matthew 21:43. Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
No where in Scripture is that judgment revoked. In the crucifixion of Jesus Christ the Jews {Israel} had fulfilled the purpose for which they were chosen! After the crucifixion the Jews were no more Gods chosen people than any other ethnic group in the world. God saves people one at a time. Those Jews who are among the Elect will be saved by God one at a time in His own time! Scripture tells us:
Acts 2:22-24
22. Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23. Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24. Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
And God executed judgment on Israel in 70AD.
Having said that I think it is nonsense to claim that Israel still constitute the Chosen People of God. Jesus Christ told the Jews {Israel} before they conspired with Rome to crucify Him:
Matthew 21:43. Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
No where in Scripture is that judgment revoked. In the crucifixion of Jesus Christ the Jews {Israel} had fulfilled the purpose for which they were chosen! After the crucifixion the Jews were no more Gods chosen people than any other ethnic group in the world. God saves people one at a time. Those Jews who are among the Elect will be saved by God one at a time in His own time! Scripture tells us:
Acts 2:22-24
22. Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23. Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24. Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
And God executed judgment on Israel in 70AD.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I am an adopted child of God. I would also remind you that Abraham had many sons!{Genesis 25:1ff}
Maybe you should define what "chosen" means to you. Jews were not chosen because they were any different or any better than anyone else. I really don't know what you mean. It was an historic event and I don't know how you undo history.
Is Christendom being spared because there are ten good people?
Romans 11:1 (KJV) I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin.
Is Christendom being spared because there are ten good people?
Romans 11:1 (KJV) I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin.
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OldRegular
Well-Known Member
verb
1.a past participle of choose.
adjective
2.selected from several; preferred:
my chosen profession.
3.Theology, elect (def 9).
noun
4.elect.
From: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/chosen
In Genesis 3:15 God gives the initial promise in Scripture of the coming Redeemer. This initial promise, is veiled to say the least and could not be understood without the continuing revelation of God. But God does not leave us without hope. As the Biblical history of man unfolds so does God’s purpose in salvation.
If the Redeemer was to be born of a woman and that birth was to take place in history the way must be prepared. The Redeemer must be identified with God since He was to reconcile sinful man to God and since He was a man, the seed of a woman, He must be identified with the people of God. It was necessary, therefore, that God call out a people for His Name. Unto that people would be given the oracles of God {Romans 3:2} and through that people would come the promised Redeemer. That people God chose to accomplish His purpose of bringing the Redeemer, Jesus Christ, into the world was Israel. Once they had caused the crucifixion of Jesus Christ their part in the redemption of the Elect was complete.
I have never denied that Israel was Chosen by God. However, one must understand why they were chosen. I present my view above. Once they accomplished God's purpose for them they were no longer a chosen people. However, God still had and has His Elect among Israel as the Apostle Paul tells us.
Jesus Christ said:
Matthew 16:18. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
You really need to present the context:
First consider what the Apostle Paul tells us in Romans 9.
Romans 9:1-8
1. I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2. That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4. Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5. Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6. Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7. Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Notice in verse 6 that the Apostle tells us: For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
And in verse 8: They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:
Then in reference to the Scripture you posted: It must be taken in context
Roman 11:1-7
1. I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3. Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
God does not cast away those He foreknew, Chose, before the foundation of the world. Only the Elect of National Israel were true Israel as the underlines parts of the above passage show!
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No, you are changing the meaning of the word chosen in various contexts. Anyway, this is off topic and red ink hurts my eyes.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I present the dictionary meaning of chosen which also presents the theological meaning. I have changed nothing. I have said that Israel was chosen by God for a specific purpose. You may disagree with me but don't say I have changed the meaning of "chosen" particularly when you have presented no definition!
The Nation of Israel was cast aside by Jesus Christ as I have shown by Scripture. Matthew 24 presents the promise of Jesus Christ of God's Judgment on Israel which occurred in 70 AD. God through the Apostle Paul tells us that though national Israel {Jews} are apostate God still has those chosen by God to salvation in Jesus Christ among the Jews. These Elect will be saved one at a time as they are brought to faith in Jesus Christ just as all elect of God.
It is well worth remembering that Israel was in general an apostate nation. The martyred Stephen calls them a stiff-necked people. Most still are; the Elect are not!
Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Oh, we support them alright:
The U.S. provides Israel $8.5 million in military aid each day...
"Israel is by far the largest recipient of U.S. foreign military aid (see how other nations compare). According to the CRS report, the President’s request for Israel for FY 2015 will encompass approximately 55% of total U.S. foreign military financing worldwide. According to the CRS report, "[a]nnual FMF grants to Israel represent 23% to 25% of the overall Israeli defense budget."
Contrary to ordinary U.S. policy, Israel has been and continues to be allowed to use approximately 25% of this military aid to purchase equipment from Israeli manufacturers. According to CRS, “no other recipient of U.S. military assistance has been granted this benefit.” Thanks in part to this indirect U.S. subsidy, Israel’s arms industry has become one of the strongest in the world. “Between 2001 and 2008, it was the 7th largest arms supplier to the world with sales worth a total of 9.9 billion.”
The United States also contributes funds for a joint U.S.-Israeli Missile Defense Program designed to thwart short-range missiles and rockets fired by non-state actors (such as Hamas and Hezbollah) as well as mid- and longer-range ballistic missiles (this refers to Iran and/or Syria's asenals). Arrow II, Arrow III, David's Sling, and Iron Dome refer to different projects under the umbrella of this Missile Defense program. In 2014, the U.S. spent $504 million on this and plans to spend $272.7 million in 2015
By all accounts the United States has given more money to Israel than to any other country. The Congressional Research Service’s conservative estimate of total cumulative US aid to Israel (not adjusted for inflation) from 1949 through 2014 is $121 billion.
An October 2013 Washington Report article “A Conservative Estimate of Total Direct U.S. Aid to Israel: $130 Billion,” by Shirl McArthur, puts the cumulative total even higher....."
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OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Seems like I recall several years ago we were giving about $4 billion a year which amounted to about $1000 per person in Israel at that time. That being said Radical Islam is our enemy. Israel is an enemy of Radical Islam. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. I believe that is an old Arab saying!