Is it a sin for a man to touch a women to whom he is not married?

[thegospelgeek]

I wonder why Baptists seems obsessed with whether something is called a sin or not (I realize this is the question in the OP). This happens on threads on gambling -- "I can't find gambling called a sin in the Bible so I'll gamble," for example.

Is it not true that there are some things to avoid even if they are not technically a sin? This does not take a rocket science brain to understand.

Didn't Paul say that all is allowed but not all is profitable (paraphrasing from memory)?

I can walk into a bar where there are dirty jokes and lewd looks and maybe walking into the bar is not a sin - technically - but is it a good idea? Of course not.

Why do some have to have something labeled a sin in the Bible to say it's not good?

This post reminds me of 'The Painted House" by John Grisham. There is part in the book where the little boy is talking about the neighbors who were methodist. He said they found some things sinful, unlike the baptist in his house who found pretty much everything sinful.

 

[Jon-Marc]

I know that it is good for a man not to touch a woman. I don't know that I would accuse one of sin for touching one, but I couldn't say he is doing good.

I think people might be taking that verse a little too literally. What is wrong with jsut a "touch"? That would mean we can't shake hands with any woman since we would have to "touch" her. A man couldn't touch her shoulder to console her when she's grieving. He also could never kiss a woman except after they're married.

Personally, I believe that the "touch" that Paul is referring to is a euphemism and actually means, "Have sex with her".

 

[4His_glory]

Personally, I believe that the "touch" that Paul is referring to is a euphemism and actually means, "Have sex with her".

Ding ding ding! Give the man a prize! You are correct.

 

[Marcia]

I think people might be taking that verse a little too literally. What is wrong with jsut a "touch"? That would mean we can't shake hands with any woman since we would have to "touch" her. A man couldn't touch her shoulder to console her when she's grieving. He also could never kiss a woman except after they're married.

Personally, I believe that the "touch" that Paul is referring to is a euphemism and actually means, "Have sex with her".

But there are men with an intrusive touch, as I think of it.

I don't think the passage means all touch, but a touch that is intrustive sexually speaking.

 

[Aaron]

Okay, men. You that are married. You're sitting next to a woman that is either comparable to or rivals your wife in beauty. You're sitting close enough that your arms touch. Is that kind of touching okay?

 

[John Toppass]

Okay, men. You that are married. You're sitting next to a woman that is either comparable to or rivals your wife in beauty. You're sitting close enough that your arms touch. Is that kind of touching okay?

If you have to ask, then it probably is not okay.

 

[Steven2006]

I can see it now, a man is standing on a sidewalk and a woman next to him stumbles and begins to fall. She looks up to him and reaches for help. It all seems to be happening now in slow motion. She can hardly believe that even though he is looking right at her, he doesn't reach out to help. As she begins to hit the ground she thinks she hears him mumble something about, "sorry I read the BB". :laugh:

 

[Mexdeaf]

Good. And I know its not the norm. I am an American. I have to admit it did take some getting used to.

In certain parts of our country- yes, here in the good ole US of A- where Mexican culture has been implanted for hundreds of years, the 'air kiss' is still practiced amongst family, friends, and church members just as it is in Mexico and many other S. American countries.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Okay, men. You that are married. You're sitting next to a woman that is either comparable to or rivals your wife in beauty. You're sitting close enough that your arms touch. Is that kind of touching okay?

Oh, goodness gracious! If touching elbows an be interpreted as sexual, then there's something wrong with our interpretation of sexual.

Regardless, it should not matter whether the woman is comparable to your wife in beauty or she is much to the opposite.

 

[Mexdeaf]

But there are men with an intrusive touch, as I think of it.

I am a man and I can tell you that my wife says some men can just "look" in an intrusive manner. I am sure you know what she means.

 

[annsni]

I can see it now, a man is standing on a sidewalk and a woman next to him stumbles and begins to fall. She looks up to him and reaches for help. It all seems to be happening now in slow motion. She can hardly believe that even though he is looking right at her, he doesn't reach out to help. As she begins to hit the ground she thinks she hears him mumble something about, "sorry I read the BB". :laugh:

:laugh: :thumbs:

 

[Jim1999]

touch is a far cry from sexual relations!

Cheers,

Jim

 

[webdog]

touch is a far cry from sexual relations!

Cheers,

Jim

Is "lying down with" or "lying with" also a far cry?

 

[Jim1999]

the last poster was talking about a falling woman......pay mind to discussion.........

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Aaron]

Oh, goodness gracious! If touching elbows an be interpreted as sexual, then there's something wrong with our interpretation of sexual.

So the wife that is not happy about her hubby's proximity is being unreasonable and insecure, or is it a reasonable expectation that that kind of intimacy should be reserved for her?

 

[tinytim]

If the elbows of another woman turn the married man on.. That man's a freak!

The man has the problem, and probably should never leave his home!

ROFL!

 

[rbell]

So the wife that is not happy about her hubby's proximity is being unreasonable and insecure, or is it a reasonable expectation that that kind of intimacy should be reserved for her?

(can't believe we're having to go into this detail...)

Why are they sitting closely? I "touched arms" with a married woman last year on a mission trip. We were in a crowded train, and our arms touched (at least I guess they did. It didn't exactly make an impact on me...I guess that should answer your question as to if it were an exciting thing. )

Neither of us left our spouses because of this incident, nor did we want to.

Now...if we were to simply be somewhere, and there was no compelling reason yet we were sitting that close anyway, then there would be an issue.

I'm not saying actions don't matter. They do. But keep in mind that Christ told us where the first battlefield was in this area...the mind.

If I'm "touching arms" with someone, and my mind is going somewhere with it, it's a huge problem.

But there can be non-sexual contact between genders (i.e., shaking hands). It is our responsibility as Christian men to keep our minds pure. And there is a line beyond which there physical touch has no other purpose but to be physical, sensual, etc.

I'm not suggesting that we find "the line" and run right up to it...that would be terribly unwise. But I also don't think that Scripture teaches us that we must put ourselves in a bubble, and that shaking hands with a woman inevitably leads to extramarital affairs, pregnancy, divorce, and subsequent marriages to Elizabeth Taylor.

Context is our friend, regarding this verse.

 

[sag38]

Some folks need to go live in a monastery or go live in a Muslim country where women wear burkas and walk several feet behind their male protectors. When we start worrying about elbows touching or whether on not a male should baptize a female we have gotten chin deep in the muck of legalism and it stinks.

 

[Jon-Marc]

Okay, men. You that are married. You're sitting next to a woman that is either comparable to or rivals your wife in beauty. You're sitting close enough that your arms touch. Is that kind of touching okay?

What difference does it make what she looks like? People are sometimes in a situation where your shoulders or arms touch because of it being crowded. That is a non-issue.

Intimate touching is an entirely different matter. The church pews are crowded (definitely not a Baptist church), and arms touch. Are they committing sin? I don't believe they are. Christians tend to see sin where there isn't any--even making things sin that God never spoke against. People tend to put more of a burden on one another than God intended.

In Acts 15 there is a dispute about whether or not to circumcise Gentiles. Some believed they had to circumcised in order to be saved. Acts 15:10 says, "Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the necks of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?"

In other words, God's list of what to do and what not to do is sufficient, and we don't need to be adding to our burden. I had a friend who believed that any game that used cards was sinful. I had a cousin (in the 1960's) who thought that TV, coffee and comic books were sinful. Now, that was about 45 years ago when there was nothing bad in comic books or on the TV, and what's sinful about coffee--other than the sinfully delicious aroma? :laugh: I love the aroma of the coffee aisle at Wal-Mart.

 

[sag38]

Thou shalt not smell the aroma of coffee lest thee be tempted. I Opinions 2:1
Elbow touching is an abomination. III Opinions 4:45

See, it is in my bible.