Featured Is it always God's will to heal?

I think you meant 2 Cor. 12:9...
What about Romans 8:26? It was not always limited to sickness when King James Bible was written. Notice the colon after the word "infirmities" and again after the word "ought." This verse is saying that it is an infirmity to not know what we should pray for as we ought. If you were to look up the word infermity in the dictionary, you'd find that it not only means sickness, but it could also be any wekness or inadequacy. This is how it was used in Romans 8:26. Not knowing how to pray for something is a weakness, an inadequacy, an infirmity---not a sickness or a disease.

 

I will get back to the context..and we will see what the Word agrees with.

If I prove a doctrine it will be cause it is in the Bible...not someones religious doctrine.

Timothy didn't have an "illness" (singular), but instead he had several illnesses (plural). Since he had "frequent illnesses" (plural), this shows that in some way his stomach illnesses were healed each time. This verse doesn't support the idea that it is not God's will to heal! People will get sick in this world...but how does it prove to be God's will if they are sick!

 

God heals in many ways..not just by laying on hands! The fact that Timothy was healed would be proof enough to me that it is not God's will for him to be sick.

Why would God want his children to be physically sick? When Jesus walked the earth..his will was to heal. Who on this board would wish their kids to be sick or worse..put a disease on them..like cancer? If we love to this degree...how much more does God love His children?

 

Of course! Explain it away...but it is there...and it does not mean sickness!

What did it do to Paul? It "tormented" him, according to the NIV. The Amplified Version translates this Greek word by saying that it "buffeted" and "harassed" him. In addition to the verse that we're examining (2 Corinthians 12:7), this Greek word occurs 4 more times in the New Testament, where it means "to strike with the fists" (Matthew 26:67, Mark 14:65), "to be brutally treated" (1 Corinthians 4:11), and "to receive a beating" (1 Peter 2:20). This Greek word is never used in reference to sickness or disease. It's always used to describe someone brutally mistreating someone else.

Do you boast about being sick and delight in them? Usually we go to a doctor, or we take medication, or we try to do something to get well, but notice that Paul did none of these things concerning his "thorn." Instead, he delighted in his weaknesses. If this is an illness...it does not make sense!

 

2 Corinthians 12:7: "To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger [angelos] of Satan, to torment me."
2 Corinthians 12:8: "Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me."
2 Corinthians 12:9: "But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me."
2 Corinthians 12:10: "That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong."

In the above passage, notice that Paul did not ask God to heal him, but instead Paul asked God to take away (aphistemi, literally, "that it might depart from me") the "thorn." There's a big difference. This is the same Greek word which is used in Acts 12:10 when an angel "departed" from Peter, and in all of the 15 other occurrences of this Greek word in the New Testament it's never used in reference to sickness or healing (see Luke 2:37, 4:13, 8:13, 13:27, Acts 5:37, 38, 15:38, 19:9, 22:29, 1 Timothy 4:1, 6:5, 2 Timothy 2:19, and Hebrews 3:12). Paul wasn't asking for a sickness to be healed, but instead he was asking God to take away this demonic harassment

 

Could have been stomach problems...but if the wine seem to cure it! It still does not prove that God wants us sick!

I answered DHK's example on another thread. But Again....

What it means when the Lord "disciplines" or "chastens" those He loves (Hebrews 12:6-7). The Greek word for "discipline" or "chasten" in that passage means "instruct, learn, teach," according to Strong's Greek Dictionary. Notice that loving parents would not discipline their children by intentionally inflicting cancer or AIDS or any other disease on them! God is a God who loves His children and has our best interests at heart, He's not a God of child abuse. But even if we want to believe that sicknesses are "chastenings," notice that the above passage instructs us to endure chastenings! So if we believe that sicknesses are "chastenings" then we should not go to a doctor nor take any medication nor do anything to alleviate our symptoms nor try to get better, because then we're not enduring our discipline.

God might sometimes use an existing sickness as a way of teaching us something, but this doesn't mean that all of our sicknesses are "afflictions" or "chastenings." Many people are misusing these Scriptures to justify their sicknesses and diseases and infirmities, but wouldn't you rather believe what the Bible really says and then receive healing from your sickness and pain?

I also addressed this in another post. God did heal Job! So this scripture does not prove that it is not God's will to heal! Job allowed satan a door into his life through fear! The thing he feared the most happened to him!

When Paul began boasting about his "thorn in the flesh," he was boasting about insults, hardships, persecutions, difficulties, and anything that made him weak, because God's power is made perfect in weakness (2 Corinthians 12:7-10). In fact, we can see that in the previous chapter of the same book (2 Corinthians) Paul boasted about more of his sufferings and afflictions and weaknesses...not sickness!

There are several things mentioned in the Bible why people are not healed today...but none of them are God's will! You can not convince me that my Father with healing power would allow His children or even worse give it to them..cancer, aids etc. Even in the Bible he healed birth defects! So I know He can..the answers I am seeking in his Word is why doesn't he do it today?

I have never denied that God does not work all things out for His glory. But...we should keep in mind that God might use an existing sickness to teach us something, but it was never His desire for us to be sick

 

I have to repeat myself on so many different threads because everyone has to open their own personal thread about a subject...so again...

In order to fully understand what it means to have a "thorn," it's helpful to examine every place where this concept appears in the Bible. Here are the remaining places where people seem to have had "thorns":
Numbers 33:55: "'But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land, those you allow to remain will become barbs in your eyes and thorns in your sides. They will give you trouble in the land where you will live."

Joshua 23:13: "then you may be sure that the LORD your God will no longer drive out these nations before you. Instead, they will become snares and traps for you, whips on your backs and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from this good land, which the LORD your God has given you."

Judges 2:2: "and you shall not make a covenant with the people of this land, but you shall break down their altars.' Yet you have disobeyed me. Why have you done this?"
Judges 2:3: "Now therefore I tell you that I will not drive them out before you; they will be thorns [several translations of the Bible indicate that the word "thorns" is implied here] in your sides and their gods will be a snare to you."

Ezekiel 28:24: "No longer will the people of Israel have malicious neighbors who are painful briers and sharp thorns. Then they will know that I am the Sovereign LORD."

Notice that in every description of a "thorn," it's always used to describe people who are bringing suffering upon other people. Paul specifically said that his "thorn" was a demon which was bringing suffering upon him everywhere he went, which is exactly the same way that a "thorn" is used everywhere else in Scripture. It has nothing to do with sickness or disease, and it does not prove that is is God will not to heal!

 

It doesn't matter what the thorn was for this argument...even if you are right...Paul still left a man sick...Jesus left multitudes unhealed in John 5:2-9.

You need to deal with posts #5 & 17 in this thread.

And also the fact that Job was allowed by God to lose his wealth and health for a period of time. Job said God did it, and God didn't correct him!

 

All healings are not instant healings. Even when Jesus spit in mud and applied it on the mans blind eyes. He had to go and wash as Jesus said to do! He had to act on his faith that what Jesus said was true.

Jesus performed more healings than any other miracle in the Bible. I can post scripture after scripture showing that it was their faith that healed them in the Bible. He never said they were healed because it was his will..he always gave credit to their faith. The blood covenant operates through faith!

Why don't people ask the same statement about salvation as they do healing..."If God wants me to be saved then He'll save me." This kind of faith is misguided...with this kind of faith many will perish and will spend an eternity in hell. I believe that faith concerning healing has been warped in our churches today and our conception of God.

In Matt. 8:17 the Bible is clear! Isaiah 53:5 states .."..and with his stripes we are healed." It is repeatedin the NT in 1 Peter 2:24 with a changed tense. We were healed! It is past tense!

God wants the best for us! Sickness is not the best for us!

It was not God that put sickness on Job....Job's fear opened the door to satan's attack! God healed him! DId he do it right away! NO! But he was healed!

 

I did deal with this in another thread!


If Trophimus was sick and not just weak ( I think he was just weak), and if he never received healing, then this is no different than when people today don't receive healing (for various reasons). Either way, this passage doesn't prove that healing "died out" in the first century or that Paul had "lost" his healing abilities.

What are some of the reasons in the Bible that people do not get healed?

 

WOW...you really need to re-read the book of Job and not add things that aren't there...The text says nothing about Job's fear bringing on his sickness... Here's a start:

Satan hadn't even brought up Job's name! It was GOD who directed Satan's attention toward Job...Satan suggested a test, and God agreed!

And again it happens in ch 2:

Again, God intentionally pointed out Job to Satan, know what Satan's intentions were...

I will grant that it does say Job "Feared God" ...so you are technically correct, it was Jobs righteous fear of God that led to him being striped of prosperity and health.

And just to remind you of your previous comment:

So based your previous answer about Job not being under a covenant with God...You would say it is never God's desires for some people who love and worship Him to be sick, but it is his desire for others who love and worship him to be sick?

 

Answer: I can guarantee you this...ANY godly parent of a rebellious child who rejected God and Christ would desire to allow their child to become sick, if they knew for certain that sickness would shake them up to their need of Jesus. As the older brother of one of these rebellious 23-year-olds...I know My Godly Father truly believes that it may very well take that young man hitting rock bottom financially, or in prison for drunk driving, or injured from drunk driving to make him see his need of God.

Does my Dad hope that will happen? Of course not, but he would rather see him go through some hard times and turn to Christ than see him have a nice happy life apart from Christ.

 

Job did not blame God for what was happening! God desire is not for us to be sick! This thread said is it God's desire that we are healed! The answer is yes! What happen to Job was not God's desire!

Job 3:25,26 Job feared greatly the thing that come upon him. Tell me how did he trust God and fear at the same time? He said he was not in safety, where is the faith in that? Fear counteracts Faith! If he trusted God to protect Him then why did he fear it would happen? Fear opened the door!

 

Where are all these charismatics coming from anyways?

 

I do not know about charasmatics or pentecostals. I believe that Jesus did not change, and have witnessed miracles. It is a wonderful thing when someone gets healed. It is out of love for people that I want to see them healed. It also is to help peoples unbelief, just like Jesus said. It also edifies. To demonize the sick getting healed is a blindness that Satan causes, and preachers dont have to do much except get a sermon off the net and collect a check, a hireling for sure lol.

 

Awww...now you have gone and hurt our little ole feelings.