Is it always God's will to heal?

[awaken]

In 1 Cor. 12:9, Paul refers to the thorn as the Greek word astheneia. This word is very clearly sickness when used about sick people being healed by Christ in: Luke 5:15, 8:2, 13:11-12. Luke was a doctor, using a normal word for sickness. It was used in the same way in John 5:5, of Lazarus sick to death in John 11:4. Paul healed people with astheneia in Acts 28:9 (again Dr. Luke using the word). Paul himself uses the word of physical weakness (which was not healed), "weakness of the flesh," in Gal. 4:3. Again, Paul used the word of Timothy's stomach sickness for which he was to drink wine, a medicine in those days, in 1 Tim. 5:23.

I think you meant 2 Cor. 12:9...
What about Romans 8:26? It was not always limited to sickness when King James Bible was written. Notice the colon after the word "infirmities" and again after the word "ought." This verse is saying that it is an infirmity to not know what we should pray for as we ought. If you were to look up the word infermity in the dictionary, you'd find that it not only means sickness, but it could also be any wekness or inadequacy. This is how it was used in Romans 8:26. Not knowing how to pray for something is a weakness, an inadequacy, an infirmity---not a sickness or a disease.

 

[awaken]

You are showing ignorance of Greek semantics with your opinion. The Greek word aggelos does not always mean angel or demon. It was used for John the Baptist in Matt. 11:10 and Mark 1:2 and Luke 7:27. Was John the Baptist an angel? Of course not.

So the word in our passage must be interpreted in context. What was the messenger? It is very clearly sickness, judging by Luke the doctor's use of the word that Paul is using. Therefore, "messenger" of Satan is a metaphorical usage. All the Bible versions translate "messenger of Satan" rather than "angel of Satan," meaning they disagree with you.

I will get back to the context..and we will see what the Word agrees with.

But if you wish to prove the Charismatic doctrine that healing is always God's will, you have a lot more to deal with. What about when Paul told Timothy about Timothy's stomach ailment.

If I prove a doctrine it will be cause it is in the Bible...not someones religious doctrine.

Timothy didn't have an "illness" (singular), but instead he had several illnesses (plural). Since he had "frequent illnesses" (plural), this shows that in some way his stomach illnesses were healed each time. This verse doesn't support the idea that it is not God's will to heal! People will get sick in this world...but how does it prove to be God's will if they are sick!

 

[John of Japan]

I think you meant 2 Cor. 12:9...
What about Romans 8:26? It was not always limited to sickness when King James Bible was written. Notice the colon after the word "infirmities" and again after the word "ought." This verse is saying that it is an infirmity to not know what we should pray for as we ought. If you were to look up the word infermity in the dictionary, you'd find that it not only means sickness, but it could also be any wekness or inadequacy. This is how it was used in Romans 8:26. Not knowing how to pray for something is a weakness, an inadequacy, an infirmity---not a sickness or a disease.

Rom. 8:26 is a metaphorical usage of astheneia, the word for physical weakness.

As for the English word infirmity, it means little to me in this case. I don't exegete the Greek by looking up the English word someone translated it with.

 

[John of Japan]

Timothy didn't have an "illness" (singular), but instead he had several illnesses (plural). Since he had "frequent illnesses" (plural), this shows that in some way his stomach illnesses were healed each time. This verse doesn't support the idea that it is not God's will to heal!

You missed the point. I'll try again. If it is always God's will to heal miraculously, why did Paul tell Timothy to take medicine? Why didn't Paul say, "Son, you need to pray more to heal your stomach problems." Or, "Tim my boy, have the elders lay their hands on you to heal your stomach problems."

 

[awaken]

You missed the point. I'll try again. If it is always God's will to heal miraculously, why did Paul tell Timothy to take medicine? Why didn't Paul say, "Son, you need to pray more to heal your stomach problems." Or, "Tim my boy, have the elders lay their hands on you to heal your stomach problems."

God heals in many ways..not just by laying on hands! The fact that Timothy was healed would be proof enough to me that it is not God's will for him to be sick.

Why would God want his children to be physically sick? When Jesus walked the earth..his will was to heal. Who on this board would wish their kids to be sick or worse..put a disease on them..like cancer? If we love to this degree...how much more does God love His children?

 

[awaken]

Rom. 8:26 is a metaphorical usage of astheneia, the word for physical weakness.

As for the English word infirmity, it means little to me in this case. I don't exegete the Greek by looking up the English word someone translated it with.

Of course! Explain it away...but it is there...and it does not mean sickness!

What did it do to Paul? It "tormented" him, according to the NIV. The Amplified Version translates this Greek word by saying that it "buffeted" and "harassed" him. In addition to the verse that we're examining (2 Corinthians 12:7), this Greek word occurs 4 more times in the New Testament, where it means "to strike with the fists" (Matthew 26:67, Mark 14:65), "to be brutally treated" (1 Corinthians 4:11), and "to receive a beating" (1 Peter 2:20). This Greek word is never used in reference to sickness or disease. It's always used to describe someone brutally mistreating someone else.

Do you boast about being sick and delight in them? Usually we go to a doctor, or we take medication, or we try to do something to get well, but notice that Paul did none of these things concerning his "thorn." Instead, he delighted in his weaknesses. If this is an illness...it does not make sense!

 

[awaken]

2 Corinthians 12:7: "To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger [angelos] of Satan, to torment me."
2 Corinthians 12:8: "Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me."
2 Corinthians 12:9: "But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me."
2 Corinthians 12:10: "That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong."

In the above passage, notice that Paul did not ask God to heal him, but instead Paul asked God to take away (aphistemi, literally, "that it might depart from me") the "thorn." There's a big difference. This is the same Greek word which is used in Acts 12:10 when an angel "departed" from Peter, and in all of the 15 other occurrences of this Greek word in the New Testament it's never used in reference to sickness or healing (see Luke 2:37, 4:13, 8:13, 13:27, Acts 5:37, 38, 15:38, 19:9, 22:29, 1 Timothy 4:1, 6:5, 2 Timothy 2:19, and Hebrews 3:12). Paul wasn't asking for a sickness to be healed, but instead he was asking God to take away this demonic harassment

 

[John of Japan]

God heals in many ways..not just by laying on hands! The fact that Timothy was healed would be proof enough to me that it is not God's will for him to be sick.

But if the sickness occurred multiple times, as you pointed out, Timothy was NOT completely cured. It was a recurring problem.

Why would God want his children to be physically sick? When Jesus walked the earth..his will was to heal. Who on this board would wish their kids to be sick or worse..put a disease on them..like cancer? If we love to this degree...how much more does God love His children?

God allows (not causes) sickness, which ultimately came into the world originally through the original sin. Yes, it is often God's will to heal sickness, but to say it always is ignores so much of Scripture: Bible Christians who were sick (you haven't answered DHK's example); the fact that God allows things to happen in order to work them out for good (Rom. 8:28); God's hand in chastening (Heb. 12), etc.

Again, saying what you say in this post denies the entire lesson of the book of Job. So many have been blessed and helped by that book in the Bible, which occurred simply because God allowed sickness and sadness in Job's life.

I thank God for every single illness and injury in my life. God gave us pain, as I tell my kung fu students, for a purpose. Without pain, we would be in bad shape. All athletes know this! At my age I have fallen arches and osteo-arthritis. I have had a disease called rosacea for many years that has damaged my eyes and face. I thank God for these! I see good, I see Him working through each one of these physical weaknesses. I do not want God to take these problems away--they help me grow and show me His will in various areas.

My 2nd cousin Betty was sick when she was a little girl, causing her to be deaf to this day. God used that deafness in a wonderful way to lead her parents to start a Christian camp in 1952 for deaf people, the Bill Rice Ranch. That ministry is now probably the largest in the world for deaf people, with 1000's of deaf having come to Christ through it. I saw Betty and her husband (who preaches to the deaf) in August. She was so joyful in the Lord! I guarantee you that she gives thanks for her deafness to God! Did her parents want her to be sick and deaf? Of course not! But years later they could understand why God allowed it for His glory!

In 1946, Lee Roberson was preaching in Alabama when he got the word his little girl Joy had died suddenly. His heart was broken. Of course, whose would not be? But through this God led in two ways: (1) Lee Roberson changed his life verse to Rom. 8:28, and was such a blessing--I heard him preach on that many times. He went on to build the great Highland Park Baptist Church in Chattanooga, the 2nd largest church in America in the 1970s. He also founded my Bible college, which I thank God for. (2) He started a camp for kids that he named after his baby girl, Camp Joy. In its heyday over 3000 kids would attend every siummer for free, and over the years thousands of kids have been saved, helped in their faith or called to God's work there.

 

[John of Japan]

2 Corinthians 12:7: "To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger [angelos] of Satan, to torment me."
2 Corinthians 12:8: "Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me."
2 Corinthians 12:9: "But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me."
2 Corinthians 12:10: "That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong."

I've already proven that astheneia often means sickness. It was used as such by Doctor Luke, who often used medical language. When Paul uses the plural for astheneia in 2 Cor. 11:30 and three times in this passage, it most obviously includes various kinds of weaknesses (being in the plural), including sickness.

In the above passage, notice that Paul did not ask God to heal him, but instead Paul asked God to take away (aphistemi, literally, "that it might depart from me") the "thorn." There's a big difference. This is the same Greek word which is used in Acts 12:10 when an angel "departed" from Peter, and in all of the 15 other occurrences of this Greek word in the New Testament it's never used in reference to sickness or healing (see Luke 2:37, 4:13, 8:13, 13:27, Acts 5:37, 38, 15:38, 19:9, 22:29, 1 Timothy 4:1, 6:5, 2 Timothy 2:19, and Hebrews 3:12). Paul wasn't asking for a sickness to be healed, but instead he was asking God to take away this demonic harassment

The usage here is obviously personification. The thorn is pictured as leaving Paul, a perfectly natural usage of the word aphistemi in personification. So it doesn't matter if the word is never used in the rest of the NT for healing. It's figurative here, not literal. Paul was asking God to have the physical problem leave him figuratively.

Now, if you are right about the Greek usage here, then the scholars should agree with you. But they don't. Greek scholars almost without exception interpret the "thorn in the flesh" as a physical problem. Not one single Greek scholar I checked agreed with you, with the tentative exception of Louw-Nida's lexicon. (Louw-Nida doesn't agree with you, but thinks the thorn was not physical.)

Here's BAGD, the most authoritative Greek lexicon: "Paul alludes to his illness" (p. 756). Iwanami's lexicon in Japanese: byoki (sickness; p. 430). A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures : "What was it? Certainly it was some physical malady that persisted" (loc cit, digital version in PowerBible 3.3 software). Vincent's Word Studies in the NT: "It was probably a bodily malady, in the flesh" (vol. III, p. 355). Friberg's Anlex (digital edition in Bibloi software): "figuratively, as a sharply painful affliction or disability." Alford goes even further in his commentary on the Greek, The Greek New Testament (vol II, p. 712). He calls "absurd" the idea that the thorn is "spiritual solicitations of the devil," and says it is "some painful and tedious bodily malady" (p. 713).

 

[awaken]

But if the sickness occurred multiple times, as you pointed out, Timothy was NOT completely cured. It was a recurring problem.

Could have been stomach problems...but if the wine seem to cure it! It still does not prove that God wants us sick!

God allows (not causes) sickness, which ultimately came into the world originally through the original sin. Yes, it is often God's will to heal sickness, but to say it always is ignores so much of Scripture: Bible Christians who were sick (you haven't answered DHK's example); the fact that God allows things to happen in order to work them out for good (Rom. 8:28); God's hand in chastening (Heb. 12), etc.

I answered DHK's example on another thread. But Again....

What it means when the Lord "disciplines" or "chastens" those He loves (Hebrews 12:6-7). The Greek word for "discipline" or "chasten" in that passage means "instruct, learn, teach," according to Strong's Greek Dictionary. Notice that loving parents would not discipline their children by intentionally inflicting cancer or AIDS or any other disease on them! God is a God who loves His children and has our best interests at heart, He's not a God of child abuse. But even if we want to believe that sicknesses are "chastenings," notice that the above passage instructs us to endure chastenings! So if we believe that sicknesses are "chastenings" then we should not go to a doctor nor take any medication nor do anything to alleviate our symptoms nor try to get better, because then we're not enduring our discipline.

God might sometimes use an existing sickness as a way of teaching us something, but this doesn't mean that all of our sicknesses are "afflictions" or "chastenings." Many people are misusing these Scriptures to justify their sicknesses and diseases and infirmities, but wouldn't you rather believe what the Bible really says and then receive healing from your sickness and pain?

Again, saying what you say in this post denies the entire lesson of the book of Job. So many have been blessed and helped by that book in the Bible, which occurred simply because God allowed sickness and sadness in Job's life.

I also addressed this in another post. God did heal Job! So this scripture does not prove that it is not God's will to heal! Job allowed satan a door into his life through fear! The thing he feared the most happened to him!

I thank God for every single illness and injury in my life. God gave us pain, as I tell my kung fu students, for a purpose. Without pain, we would be in bad shape. All athletes know this! At my age I have fallen arches and osteo-arthritis. I have had a disease called rosacea for many years that has damaged my eyes and face. I thank God for these! I see good, I see Him working through each one of these physical weaknesses. I do not want God to take these problems away--they help me grow and show me His will in various areas.

When Paul began boasting about his "thorn in the flesh," he was boasting about insults, hardships, persecutions, difficulties, and anything that made him weak, because God's power is made perfect in weakness (2 Corinthians 12:7-10). In fact, we can see that in the previous chapter of the same book (2 Corinthians) Paul boasted about more of his sufferings and afflictions and weaknesses...not sickness!

My 2nd cousin Betty was sick when she was a little girl, causing her to be deaf to this day. God used that deafness in a wonderful way to lead her parents to start a Christian camp in 1952 for deaf people, the Bill Rice Ranch. That ministry is now probably the largest in the world for deaf people, with 1000's of deaf having come to Christ through it. I saw Betty and her husband (who preaches to the deaf) in August. She was so joyful in the Lord! I guarantee you that she gives thanks for her deafness to God! Did her parents want her to be sick and deaf? Of course not! But years later they could understand why God allowed it for His glory!

There are several things mentioned in the Bible why people are not healed today...but none of them are God's will! You can not convince me that my Father with healing power would allow His children or even worse give it to them..cancer, aids etc. Even in the Bible he healed birth defects! So I know He can..the answers I am seeking in his Word is why doesn't he do it today?

In 1946, Lee Roberson was preaching in Alabama when he got the word his little girl Joy had died suddenly. His heart was broken. Of course, whose would not be? But through this God led in two ways: (1) Lee Roberson changed his life verse to Rom. 8:28, and was such a blessing--I heard him preach on that many times. He went on to build the great Highland Park Baptist Church in Chattanooga, the 2nd largest church in America in the 1970s. He also founded my Bible college, which I thank God for. (2) He started a camp for kids that he named after his baby girl, Camp Joy. In its heyday over 3000 kids would attend every siummer for free, and over the years thousands of kids have been saved, helped in their faith or called to God's work there.

I have never denied that God does not work all things out for His glory. But...we should keep in mind that God might use an existing sickness to teach us something, but it was never His desire for us to be sick

 

[awaken]

Here's BAGD, the most authoritative Greek lexicon: "Paul alludes to his illness" (p. 756). Iwanami's lexicon in Japanese: byoki (sickness; p. 430). A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures : "What was it? Certainly it was some physical malady that persisted" (loc cit, digital version in PowerBible 3.3 software). Vincent's Word Studies in the NT: "It was probably a bodily malady, in the flesh" (vol. III, p. 355). Friberg's Anlex (digital edition in Bibloi software): "figuratively, as a sharply painful affliction or disability." Alford goes even further in his commentary on the Greek, The Greek New Testament (vol II, p. 712). He calls "absurd" the idea that the thorn is "spiritual solicitations of the devil," and says it is "some painful and tedious bodily malady" (p. 713).

I have to repeat myself on so many different threads because everyone has to open their own personal thread about a subject...so again...

In order to fully understand what it means to have a "thorn," it's helpful to examine every place where this concept appears in the Bible. Here are the remaining places where people seem to have had "thorns":
Numbers 33:55: "'But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land, those you allow to remain will become barbs in your eyes and thorns in your sides. They will give you trouble in the land where you will live."

Joshua 23:13: "then you may be sure that the LORD your God will no longer drive out these nations before you. Instead, they will become snares and traps for you, whips on your backs and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from this good land, which the LORD your God has given you."

Judges 2:2: "and you shall not make a covenant with the people of this land, but you shall break down their altars.' Yet you have disobeyed me. Why have you done this?"
Judges 2:3: "Now therefore I tell you that I will not drive them out before you; they will be thorns [several translations of the Bible indicate that the word "thorns" is implied here] in your sides and their gods will be a snare to you."

Ezekiel 28:24: "No longer will the people of Israel have malicious neighbors who are painful briers and sharp thorns. Then they will know that I am the Sovereign LORD."

Notice that in every description of a "thorn," it's always used to describe people who are bringing suffering upon other people. Paul specifically said that his "thorn" was a demon which was bringing suffering upon him everywhere he went, which is exactly the same way that a "thorn" is used everywhere else in Scripture. It has nothing to do with sickness or disease, and it does not prove that is is God will not to heal!

 

[12strings]

I have to repeat myself on so many different threads because everyone has to open their own personal thread about a subject...so again...

In order to fully understand what it means to have a "thorn," it's helpful to examine every place where this concept appears in the Bible. Here are the remaining places where people seem to have had "thorns":
Numbers 33:55: "'But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land, those you allow to remain will become barbs in your eyes and thorns in your sides. They will give you trouble in the land where you will live."

Joshua 23:13: "then you may be sure that the LORD your God will no longer drive out these nations before you. Instead, they will become snares and traps for you, whips on your backs and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from this good land, which the LORD your God has given you."

Judges 2:2: "and you shall not make a covenant with the people of this land, but you shall break down their altars.' Yet you have disobeyed me. Why have you done this?"
Judges 2:3: "Now therefore I tell you that I will not drive them out before you; they will be thorns [several translations of the Bible indicate that the word "thorns" is implied here] in your sides and their gods will be a snare to you."

Ezekiel 28:24: "No longer will the people of Israel have malicious neighbors who are painful briers and sharp thorns. Then they will know that I am the Sovereign LORD."

Notice that in every description of a "thorn," it's always used to describe people who are bringing suffering upon other people. Paul specifically said that his "thorn" was a demon which was bringing suffering upon him everywhere he went, which is exactly the same way that a "thorn" is used everywhere else in Scripture. It has nothing to do with sickness or disease, and it does not prove that is is God will not to heal!

It doesn't matter what the thorn was for this argument...even if you are right...Paul still left a man sick...Jesus left multitudes unhealed in John 5:2-9.

You need to deal with posts #5 & 17 in this thread.

And also the fact that Job was allowed by God to lose his wealth and health for a period of time. Job said God did it, and God didn't correct him!

 

[awaken]

It doesn't matter what the thorn was for this argument...even if you are right...Paul still left a man sick...Jesus left multitudes unhealed in John 5:2-9.

You need to deal with posts #5 & 17 in this thread.

And also the fact that Job was allowed by God to lose his wealth and health for a period of time. Job said God did it, and God didn't correct him!

All healings are not instant healings. Even when Jesus spit in mud and applied it on the mans blind eyes. He had to go and wash as Jesus said to do! He had to act on his faith that what Jesus said was true.

Jesus performed more healings than any other miracle in the Bible. I can post scripture after scripture showing that it was their faith that healed them in the Bible. He never said they were healed because it was his will..he always gave credit to their faith. The blood covenant operates through faith!

Why don't people ask the same statement about salvation as they do healing..."If God wants me to be saved then He'll save me." This kind of faith is misguided...with this kind of faith many will perish and will spend an eternity in hell. I believe that faith concerning healing has been warped in our churches today and our conception of God.

In Matt. 8:17 the Bible is clear! Isaiah 53:5 states .."..and with his stripes we are healed." It is repeatedin the NT in 1 Peter 2:24 with a changed tense. We were healed! It is past tense!

God wants the best for us! Sickness is not the best for us!

It was not God that put sickness on Job....Job's fear opened the door to satan's attack! God healed him! DId he do it right away! NO! But he was healed!

 

[awaken]

You need to deal with posts #5 & 17 in this thread.

I did deal with this in another thread!


If Trophimus was sick and not just weak ( I think he was just weak), and if he never received healing, then this is no different than when people today don't receive healing (for various reasons). Either way, this passage doesn't prove that healing "died out" in the first century or that Paul had "lost" his healing abilities.

What are some of the reasons in the Bible that people do not get healed?

 

[12strings]

It was not God that put sickness on Job....Job's fear opened the door to satan's attack! God healed him! DId he do it right away! NO! But he was healed!

WOW...you really need to re-read the book of Job and not add things that aren't there...The text says nothing about Job's fear bringing on his sickness... Here's a start:

Job 1:8 And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, pa blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?” 9 Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for no reason? 10 Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face.” 12 And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

Satan hadn't even brought up Job's name! It was GOD who directed Satan's attention toward Job...Satan suggested a test, and God agreed!

And again it happens in ch 2:

Job 2:3 And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil? He still holds fast his integrity, although you incited me against him to destroy him without reason.” 4 Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “Skin for skin! All that a man has he will give for his life. 5 But stretch out your hand and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse you to your face.” 6 And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, he is in your hand; only spare his life.”

Again, God intentionally pointed out Job to Satan, know what Satan's intentions were...

I will grant that it does say Job "Feared God" ...so you are technically correct, it was Jobs righteous fear of God that led to him being striped of prosperity and health.

And just to remind you of your previous comment:

God might use an existing sickness to teach us something, but it was never His desire for us to be sick

So based your previous answer about Job not being under a covenant with God...You would say it is never God's desires for some people who love and worship Him to be sick, but it is his desire for others who love and worship him to be sick?

 

[12strings]

Why would God want his children to be physically sick? When Jesus walked the earth..his will was to heal. Who on this board would wish their kids to be sick or worse..put a disease on them..like cancer? If we love to this degree...how much more does God love His children?

Answer: I can guarantee you this...ANY godly parent of a rebellious child who rejected God and Christ would desire to allow their child to become sick, if they knew for certain that sickness would shake them up to their need of Jesus. As the older brother of one of these rebellious 23-year-olds...I know My Godly Father truly believes that it may very well take that young man hitting rock bottom financially, or in prison for drunk driving, or injured from drunk driving to make him see his need of God.

Does my Dad hope that will happen? Of course not, but he would rather see him go through some hard times and turn to Christ than see him have a nice happy life apart from Christ.

 

[awaken]

WOW...you really need to re-read the book of Job and not add things that aren't there...The text says nothing about Job's fear bringing on his sickness... Here's a start:



Satan hadn't even brought up Job's name! It was GOD who directed Satan's attention toward Job...Satan suggested a test, and God agreed!

And again it happens in ch 2:



Again, God intentionally pointed out Job to Satan, know what Satan's intentions were...

I will grant that it does say Job "Feared God" ...so you are technically correct, it was Jobs righteous fear of God that led to him being striped of prosperity and health.

And just to remind you of your previous comment:



So based your previous answer about Job not being under a covenant with God...You would say it is never God's desires for some people who love and worship Him to be sick, but it is his desire for others who love and worship him to be sick?

Job did not blame God for what was happening! God desire is not for us to be sick! This thread said is it God's desire that we are healed! The answer is yes! What happen to Job was not God's desire!

Job 3:25,26 Job feared greatly the thing that come upon him. Tell me how did he trust God and fear at the same time? He said he was not in safety, where is the faith in that? Fear counteracts Faith! If he trusted God to protect Him then why did he fear it would happen? Fear opened the door!

 

[Revmitchell]

Where are all these charismatics coming from anyways?

 

[plain_n_simple]

I do not know about charasmatics or pentecostals. I believe that Jesus did not change, and have witnessed miracles. It is a wonderful thing when someone gets healed. It is out of love for people that I want to see them healed. It also is to help peoples unbelief, just like Jesus said. It also edifies. To demonize the sick getting healed is a blindness that Satan causes, and preachers dont have to do much except get a sermon off the net and collect a check, a hireling for sure lol.

 

[Revmitchell]

I do not know about charasmatics or pentecostals. I believe that Jesus did not change, and have witnessed miracles. It is a wonderful thing when someone gets healed. It is out of love for people that I want to see them healed. It also is to help peoples unbelief, just like Jesus said. It also edifies. To demonize the sick getting healed is a blindness that Satan causes, and preachers dont have to do much except get a sermon off the net and collect a check, a hireling for sure lol.

Awww...now you have gone and hurt our little ole feelings.