Is it even Biblical to Pray for a Person’s Salvation?

[MB]

Is it even Biblical to Pray for a Person’s Salvation?

I believe so. The reason is that God is not willing that any perish.
2Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
It stands to reason that it's His will that all live. Why not pray for the Salvation of another? I have many times and still do.
MB

 

[Tom Butler]

IMO, this is an issue where Calvinists and hypers split. Yes, Calvinists believe in election from eternity past, you know, we have had endless threads on that. However, the Calvinist also believes in the commands of the Lord to go, which means visitation, missions, and evangelism. They do not believe the two concepts conflict. Although God elects them, they may come to Christ by the use of missions etc. In fact, the PCA (Presbyterian Church of America) spends more money on missionaries as a percentage of income than the SBC.

On the other hand, the hyper types, (in Baptist lingo, Primitive), believe God elected from eternity past (and this is the point of the split) certains ones, and it is therefore a waste of time and effort to visit, evangelize, etc. It appears to me they just ignore the last few verses of Matthew, and "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God."

To put it another way, Hyper-Calvinists (Primitive Baptists, Hardshells) believe that the elect can be saved independently of the gospel; that is, whether they ever hear it or not.

Calvinists believe God will certainly save the elect, but the end is not separated from the means. The means, of course, is through the "foolishness of preaching." God has ordained the means as well as the ends.

 

[pinoybaptist]

so we Primitive Baptists are the bad boys of the clan, eh ? the black sheep. the disobedient, truant, delinquent ones ?
in the minds of many of you, you even doubt there is true love for the Lord in us, maybe ?
or that we are as redeemed as you are, eh ?
gossips.

 

[Yeshua1]

so we Primitive Baptists are the bad boys of the clan, eh ? the black sheep. the disobedient, truant, delinquent ones ?
in the minds of many of you, you even doubt there is true love for the Lord in us, maybe ?
or that we are as redeemed as you are, eh ?
gossips.

No, its just that believe that you atke calvinism to an extreme that scriptures do NOT teach or maintain!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

To put it another way, Hyper-Calvinists (Primitive Baptists, Hardshells) believe that the elect can be saved independently of the gospel; that is, whether they ever hear it or not.

Calvinists believe God will certainly save the elect, but the end is not separated from the means. The means, of course, is through the "foolishness of preaching." God has ordained the means as well as the ends.

Tom, I believe that only by the direct operation of the Holy Spirit can eternal life be brought to the dead sinner (John 3 :6-8)

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit..

I also believe that the gospel brings life and immortality to light, but doesn't produce life (2 Tim.1: 10).

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel

So your telling me that because of these beliefs, taken directly from scripture that you consider me a Hyper-Calvinist?

 

[Yeshua1]

Tom, I believe that only by the direct operation of the Holy Spirit can eternal life be brought to the dead sinner (John 3 :6-8)

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.. I also believe that the gospel brings life and immortality to light, but doesn't produce life (2 Tim.1: 10).10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel

So your telling me that because of these beliefs, taken directly from scripture that you consider me a Hyper-Calvinist?

Only IF you would say that there is no need to witness/evangelize that person,as God will save the elect, so no need to preach jesus/Gospel mesasage to them at all!

 

[HeirofSalvation]

It would appear that once again the non Cals here seem to be revealing that they are not really sure what calvinists teach/believe!

Still get that feeling that some of our bethren here think that we get glee over god roasting alive sinners in hell, or that we hold God to be our Puppet master!

And that its not "fair" for Him to just chosr to save whom he wills, as if we can dictate to our Creator how things ought to be done!

Good for you for caricatur-izing Calvinism.....You just caricaturized Calvinism....NO Non-Calvinist Did.....YOU DID..
You will proceed to argue that non-Calvinists have argued this weird caricature that YOU submitted, and your Calvinist Brethren will ally with you 100% and they'll even get huffy about how much the "Arminians" have abused them....

Just watch...

This is the oldest, lamest, and most STUPID trick I've seen...You are going to create a non-existent enemy, and then rally your troops around defeating it...Why NOT? So did Emperor Palpatine....

Only Calvinists have mastered the art of self-flagellation and then learned to blame "Arminians" for it....
This makes me sick.
This appears to be Calvinist M.O.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Only IF you would say that there is no need to witness/evangelize that person,as God will save the elect, so no need to preach jesus/Gospel mesasage to them at all!

OK Brother.... tell me what this means to you then. This is regarding gifts.

Ephesians 4:11-12

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Calvinist Modus Operandi: (as revealed succinctly in this thread)

Step 1.) State one's OWN position
Step 2.) Caricaturize it/ Create from whole-cloth a "straw-man" of your own position, and blame the opposition for it...even though it was, in fact, YOU who submitted it!!!!
Step 3.) Cry like a girl about how you've been abused
Step 4.) Defeat the "Straw-man" (of your own position) that you yourself created....
Step 5.) Claim Victory.

What this becomes is a default "Red-Herring"....Some non-Calvinists will fall for this.....but I won't....Do better.
Grow up Calvie-dudes....we've seen this crap.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Good for you for caricatur-izing Calvinism.....You just caricaturized Calvinism....NO Non-Calvinist Did.....YOU DID..
You will proceed to argue that non-Calvinists have argued this weird caricature that YOU submitted, and your Calvinist Brethren will ally with you 100% and they'll even get huffy about how much the "Arminians" have abused them....

Just watch...

This is the oldest, lamest, and most STUPID trick I've seen...You are going to create a non-existent enemy, and then rally your troops around defeating it...Why NOT? So did Emperor Palpatine....

Only Calvinists have mastered the art of self-flagellation and then learned to blame "Arminians" for it....
This makes me sick.
This appears to be Calvinist M.O.

HOS, are you an Arminian?

 

[HeirofSalvation]

so we Primitive Baptists are the bad boys of the clan, eh ? the black sheep. the disobedient, truant, delinquent ones ?
in the minds of many of you, you even doubt there is true love for the Lord in us, maybe ?
or that we are as redeemed as you are, eh ?
gossips.

Truth is....."Primitive" Baptists are the only logically consistent Calvinists on Earth.

As an Arminian...I respect the intellectual honety and logical consistency of "Primitive" Baptists to no end... I disagree that Calvinism necessitates a refusal to engage in World-Wide Evangelism (it's simply non-sequitor).... but you are an intellectually honest sort....
Most so-called "Calvinists" or adherents of the "Doctrines of Grace" have turned self-deceit into an art-form....it's plain to see.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

HOS, are you an Arminian?

Essentially...but with the Caveat that I do not believe in "Original Guilt".

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Essentially...but with the Caveat that I do not believe in "Original Guilt".

Whats that supposed to mean? Are you specifically trying to pick a fight?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Truth is....."Primitive" Baptists are the only logically consistent Calvinists on Earth.

As an Arminian...I respect the intellectual honety and logical consistency of "Primitive" Baptists to no end... I disagree that Calvinism necessitates a refusal to engage in World-Wide Evangelism (it's simply non-sequitor).... but you are an intellectually honest sort....
Most so-called "Calvinists" or adherents of the "Doctrines of Grace" have turned self-deceit into an art-form....it's plain to see.

However we do not claim to be Calvinists.....but you probably know what we mean by that. We also dont preach infants into Hell.

 

[Jedi Knight]

Is it even Biblical to Pray for a Person’s Salvation

Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Salzer Mnt

You posted...

the Light came to the world, but those whom were NOT to get saved by Him were staying in darkness, as that disclosed their true bent!

There isnt an ounce of truth to that.

There is no such thing as people who are automatically "not to get saved" because God didnt "choose them". That is great error. The scriptures inform us that...

It is not Gods will that ANY be lost, but that ALL will come to repentance.

the Gospel is heard and received with joy to them whom Christ died on behalf of to purchase back to the father, but to rest, it brings more hardening/comdemnation!

error

Christ did not die for "some" lucky ones. He died for everyone , and He desires to save all. And he has made a way for every person to BE saved.

ONLY the Lord knows who is in which camp, so pray and teach to all, in order that god can save some!

I can go along with that.

 

[salzer mtn]

Salzer Mnt

You posted...



There isnt an ounce of truth to that.

There is no such thing as people who are automatically "not to get saved" because God didnt "choose them". That is great error. The scriptures inform us that...

It is not Gods will that ANY be lost, but that ALL will come to repentance.



error

Christ did not die for "some" lucky ones. He died for everyone , and He desires to save all. And he has made a way for every person to BE saved.



I can go along with that.

There also isn't a ounce of truth that posted this.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

Whats that supposed to mean? Are you specifically trying to pick a fight?

Uh...no, what I mean is neither tricky nor an attempt to be contentious. I cannot FATHOM how you thought this was an attempt to "pick a fight". You asked me if I was an "Arminian" remember???? and I answered you: I said what I meant, and that is that I am, in fact in agreement 100% with what might be understood as confessional "Arminianism"...minus the caveat that I do not hold to the notion of "Original Guilt"....How do you not understand that?... How does this be-speak contention to you? Who is "picking a fight"???
I answered your question straight-forwardly...I am "Arminian"...I do not hold to "Original Guilt"...Are those "fighting" words to you???

That wasn't "tricky", "under-handed", "dis-ingenuous" or other-wise:

It means that I understand what confessional "Arminianism" is, including it's limits and pre-suppositions and that I want it understood I am ostensibly an Arminian with the caveat that I don't believe in "Original Guilt"

I could not have been more benign concise or clear.

 

[Alive in Christ]

salzwr Mnt...

There also isn't a ounce of truth that posted this.

Its not easy to ditch something that one holds dear. I know..I was once a calvinist

Keep an open mind, stay in the scriptures, and listen to other views. Truth will become aparant.


God bless brother.

 

[HeirofSalvation]

There also isn't a ounce of truth that posted this.

I think you meant to say that there wasn't "an ounce of truth to this post"...
In lieu of what you posted:
I think that is what you meant to convey no?