Is it ok?

[billwald]

>And though Paul had a rich heritage as a Jew, he counted all the things that were his advantages in Judaism a "loss," and said that if he reestablished these things (even though these things prefigured Christ), then he made himself a transgressor.

BUT Catholics are Christians, not Jews, so this does not apply.

>One thing I found was that the Orthodox monks were very educated.

In the US! A person I know who has a PhD from Yale went to Mt Athos and talked to the monks there. He most could not read their Bibles.

In the same way, Catholic religious practice is MUCH different in Mexico and Italy than it is in the US. Much more superstition. Sort of like the differences in protestant denominations.

 

[CarpentersApprentice]

... my father... was twice divorced civilly and had two annulments... two of my brothers... are both alcoholics and dabble in drugs. My sister has been unfaithful in her marriage... And all of them tell me that they keep praying that I return to the "true church". I tell them that if it were the true church then why the disparity of morality?

And that is a fair question. They shall have much to answer for on Judgement Day.

As I read your post I though of a twist on the old line about our lives being the only Bible some people will ever read: "Their lives are all that some will ever know about the Catholic faith."

Sad, very sad.

CA

 

[bound]

Hi There Billwald,

I think one of the things that Orthodox and Catholics do is replace a Biblical Holiness with a Holiness of Doctrines... not unlike the Pharisees did with Ritual Cleanliness.

I think that is something to seriously consider as a real distraction from seeking Righteousness in the Spirit.

 

[lori4dogs]

Hi There Billwald,

I think one of the things that Orthodox and Catholics do is replace a Biblical Holiness with a Holiness of Doctrines... not unlike the Pharisees did with Ritual Cleanliness.

I think that is something to seriously consider as a real distraction from seeking Righteousness in the Spirit.

Where do you get the idea that we place doctrines over the Bible?

 

[lori4dogs]

Biwald:

>"One thing I found was that the Orthodox monks were very educated"

You aren't just whistlin' Dixie. I was blown away at the comparison of our junior high school (tour) when up against the same aged Orthodox children. Theologically they were light year ahead. Never mind the English, math, science, etc.

 

[bound]

Where do you get the idea that we place doctrines over the Bible?

First, know that half of my family are Roman Catholic and I grew up in a Roman Catholic home. My Grandfather was Catholic and my Mother (God Rest her soul was a lapsed Catholic) so please don't presume I speak from simple Apologetics or Polemics.

When Orthodox and Catholics judge other Christians, it is on the basis of their own supposed 'doctrines' and not by the 'Fruits of the Holy Spirit' from which we know whom are His.

Far too many Orthodox and Catholics involve themselves in a dogmatic inquiry to determine if one is 'truly' Christian when we know it is 'by their Fruit that you will know they are Mine' Our Lord and Saviour says.

But for Orthodox and Catholics, they use another measure, not the Fruits but man-made praxis to judge one's Faithfulness to the Ways of Christ.

This is not unlike what the Pharisees did in Our Lord's time with the False righteousness of the Pharisaic Precepts of Cleaniness. You judge others by outwork works and because you load-down your days with Fasting and Long-Prayers, as the Pharisees did, you pridefully make of show of your works...

Now, don't take this the wrong way, works in and of themselves are not a bad thing but God judges 'hearts' and works done out of pride are of little value. Doing outward works don't determine our salvation or our 'orthodoxy'. Contrite Hearts seeking God's Face will stand before Him with honor. It will not matter what creeds have be spoken or prayers said 1000 times... but what has been done through Faith.

I believe St. Francis de Sales spoke this in his work Introduction to True Devotion.

 

[Agnus_Dei]

First, know that half of my family are Roman Catholic and I grew up in a Roman Catholic home. My Grandfather was Catholic and my Mother (God Rest her soul was a lapsed Catholic) so please don't presume I speak from simple Apologetics or Polemics.

When Orthodox and Catholics judge other Christians, it is on the basis of their own supposed 'doctrines' and not by the 'Fruits of the Holy Spirit' from which we know whom are His.

Far too many Orthodox and Catholics involve themselves in a dogmatic inquiry to determine if one is 'truly' Christian when we know it is 'by their Fruit that you will know they are Mine' Our Lord and Saviour says.

But for Orthodox and Catholics, they use another measure, not the Fruits but man-made praxis to judge one's Faithfulness to the Ways of Christ.

hmmmm...this is the first i've heard of any of this "judging" other Christians...the first thing i was taught in Orthodox Catechesis class was that we (Orthodox) do not have God in our pocket and that its not our place to judge any regarding their salvation...the reason is b/c many converts from Protestantism found the Orthodox Church after searching for the NT Church...

my thought is that you're being misleading in your assessment...remember it is ONLY your opinion and assessment...you may have been raised a Catholic, but that hardly makes you authoritative on the subject...just because you experienced it, doesn't make it true of ALL Catholic or Orthodox Churches...

granted some "individuals", be it Catholic or Orthodox may take this approach, but the same can be said of many Protestants too, as i've experienced such as a fundamental baptist and continue to experience from friends and relatives who do not agree with my decision to convert to the Orthodox Church.

In XC
-

 

[Jerome]

Noel Piper, wife of Baptist pastor John Piper, shares the elaborate candle-based Lenten ritual that has been a blessing to their family.

Ash Wednesday
In the Bible, ashes are a sign of mourning, an appropriate symbol as we think of our part in the death of our Lord.

 

[lori4dogs]

And that is a fair question. They shall have much to answer for on Judgement Day.

As I read your post I though of a twist on the old line about our lives being the only Bible some people will ever read: "Their lives are all that some will ever know about the Catholic faith."

Sad, very sad.

CA

Gee whiz, they sound like the Baptist family we have living next door. Why the lack of morals. Sunday they are 'fine Baptist' and then Sunday afternoon we have to close all the windows to keep from hearing all the 'f' bombs flying.


There are many Catholic Christians that do live according to Christ example. It is not fair to say one church represents the regenerate and another does not.

 

[lori4dogs]

Noel Piper, wife of Baptist pastor John Piper, shares the elaborate candle-based Lenten ritual that has been a blessing to their family.

Thanks for that link. Very useful!:wavey:

 

[bound]

hmmmm...this is the first i've heard of any of this "judging" other Christians...the first thing i was taught in Orthodox Catechesis class was that we (Orthodox) do not have God in our pocket and that its not our place to judge any regarding their salvation...the reason is b/c many converts from Protestantism found the Orthodox Church after searching for the NT Church...

my thought is that you're being misleading in your assessment...remember it is ONLY your opinion and assessment...you may have been raised a Catholic, but that hardly makes you authoritative on the subject...just because you experienced it, doesn't make it true of ALL Catholic or Orthodox Churches...

granted some "individuals", be it Catholic or Orthodox may take this approach, but the same can be said of many Protestants too, as i've experienced such as a fundamental baptist and continue to experience from friends and relatives who do not agree with my decision to convert to the Orthodox Church.

In XC
-

The problem 'some' have seeking the Kingdom of God is that they are looking 'out there' when it is 'in here'... within our very hearts.

As long as someone is looking 'out there' for something... anyone can sell them on something new to dazzle their senses but God is a 'still small voice'... not found in 'Priestcraft' but in the power of one's faith.