Is it really "Our time to die" when murdered or killed....

[righteousdude2]

....at the hand of another's anger, drunkenness, or foolishness; or mother natures acts??

Someone said to me the other day, about those who died in Boston and West, TX, that it was "just" their time!

My question is: "Was it?"

I know that we all have an appointed time to die; but, does God, who apparently has that time all planned out, allow it to come by way of evil or a senseless accident? Or maybe even during a natural disaster?

I am just thinking out loud, but are things that happen to take a life from this earth, other than some form of age related, or illness-related death, His plan or will for us. Even in a Does God put some here just to die in battle or in the heat of a war?

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. I do not think that people who are killed, like on 9/11 were necessarily meant to die then. I think those are unnatural deaths, and that they take life before the pre-ordained time God had set upon that life when they came into this life?

Are some people just taken prematurely, and not in line with God's plan for his or her life? After all, would God really allow a Child of His to die at the hands of a brutal, homicidal maniac?

 

[blackbird]

No!!!

The killer merely chose the time for us!!!

I hear this stuff all the time----someone dies in an accident and folks say----well--it was just his turn to die/go!!!

The only ones who really believe such---are the ones who are still alive to tell it on others!!!

See what I mean??

 

[righteousdude2]

I tend to agree....

No!!!

The killer merely chose the time for us!!!

I hear this stuff all the time----someone dies in an accident and folks say----well--it was just his turn to die/go!!!

The only ones who really believe such---are the ones who are still alive to tell it on others!!!

See what I mean??

....but, it will be interesting to see how others who believe God has our life mapped out, answer! :thumbsup:

 

[Jedi Knight]

Was it Jobs kids time when the roof fell on them? What about his slain "murdered" servants? Accident?

 

[Zaac]

....at the hand of another's anger, drunkenness, or foolishness; or mother natures acts??

Someone said to me the other day, about those who died in Boston and West, TX, that it was "just" their time!

My question is: "Was it?"

I know that we all have an appointed time to die; but, does God, who apparently has that time all planned out, allow it to come by way of evil or a senseless accident? Or maybe even during a natural disaster?

I am just thinking out loud, but are things that happen to take a life from this earth, other than some form of age related, or illness-related death, His plan or will for us. Even in a Does God put some here just to die in battle or in the heat of a war?

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. I do not think that people who are killed, like on 9/11 were necessarily meant to die then. I think those are unnatural deaths, and that they take life before the pre-ordained time God had set upon that life when they came into this life?

Are some people just taken prematurely, and not in line with God's plan for his or her life? After all, would God really allow a Child of His to die at the hands of a brutal, homicidal maniac?

Scripture says 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment Hebrews 9:27

it is APPOINTED. Though we may not like the way the appointment is brought about, it is STILL APPOINTED by God. If you go, it was INDEED your time to go or else you would not have gone.

 

[Jedi Knight]

"God is all knowing. Nothing is by accident or outside of His will!" I would add or his permissive will. Remember not even a Sparrow falls to the ground without the Father consent.....how much more us?

 

[saturneptune]

God is in charge of tornadoes, earthquakes, and famines. Floods, hurricanes, and exploding Pinto engines are mere chance.

 

[Matt22:37-39]

Very good question, one I've thought of often and with the recent suicides of Thomas Kincaid and Rick warrens son and my wanting half the time to go"home" yet I'm still here...plus I've almost died 8 times from day one of my birth, so after thinking long and hard this is my answer.

I said, Yes God has His time. While I do not think God is the author of death Satan is, for the bible says that "every good and perfect gift is from the father above"....and other verses. The bible does say our days are numbered and God knows what days those are.

The way I see it is, we are all going to die somehow, someday, some way. death no matter what is not pleasant unless you die in your sleep or having sex...I am sure either options for most would be very low on the statistic scale.

So the fact is that we all must die, more than likely it ain't going to be pretty or harmless.

Another thing to consider is this, can we hasten our death? I mean think about an indoor cat...it is going to live much longer than an outdoor one, especially if you live on 10 acres like I do, with lots of wildlife around that can eat them. So that is a just a fact of nature which would fit into the FALLEN WORLD category, stuff happens.

Now if we abuse our bodies and die prematurely due to this fact then that would fit into the category of my own sin nature and my allowing Satan to deceive me in this area....and like I've mention before there is just a natural "cause and effect" that God set into motion at the fall of man.

We do not know all the reasons why God would allow someone to die prematurely and why He decided that a certain method would be the way, as He allows it to happen?...it could a persons own sin...could be the sin of others....living in a fallen world/ cause and effect...But we do know Satan is BEHIND death, He is the one who is PUTTING OBSTACLES in the way.... yet God can make something meaningful out of it...depending ones walk with Him at the time and the testimony they leave behind, or maybe He uses their death as a wake up call to others....or maybe all those aborted babies are in heaven (I do believe they are) they may never have gotten saved any other way?....we really don't know how God will use anyone's death?

I am sure those who are left behind will have their faith tested in a way no other trial will do?

For the believer death is the gateway to life so who shall we fear...no evil!

"O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?"

 

[saturneptune]

In relation to death, my greatest wonder about myself and others for that matter, like the brave hearts on this board, is how would we react in a Abraham-Issac type situation. Or for example, how would you react with a axe about to chop off your head unless you denied Jesus Christ? Or better yet, if you had to observe your family members face the same fate unless you denied Jesus Christ? Personally, I am honest enough to say I do not know until the time.

 

[saturneptune]

Now if we abuse our bodies and die prematurely due to this fact then that would fit into the category of my own sin nature and my allowing Satan to deceive me in this area....and like I've mention before there is just a natural "cause and effect" that God set into motion at the fall of man.
?

Then how do you explain that some people get lung cancer without ever smoking, and some live to 100 smoking two packs a day? How about the drunk driver that survives and kills others who do not drink?

The reason we die is sin in general. The wages of sin is death. We all sin, and the world is cursed with sin, not just our bodies. The rate of death by specific sins or excesses seems kind of meaningless.

 

[Matt22:37-39]

Then how do you explain that some people get lung cancer without ever smoking, and some live to 100 smoking two packs a day? How about the drunk driver that survives and kills others who do not drink?

The reason we die is sin in general. The wages of sin is death. We all sin, and the world is cursed with sin, not just our bodies. The rate of death by specific sins or excesses seems kind of meaningless.

Good point about what would we do if we were faced with a decision to die or live....hmmmm

I actually knew a boy who died at 13 my sons best friend all of a sudden from lung cancer. The weird thing is my son also had a school mate who died of leukemia in 4th grade...and many other young deaths were reported in this area we lived inn at the time...so it could have been very much environmental...I would get this COUGH every year at the same time 4 years in a row till I moved...that would last 2 to 4 months and NOTHING worked to stop it... was MISERABLY!

I was born a 2 1/2 lb sixties drug baby...yet I had and have no physical issues resulting from that other than I was hyperactive and didn't want to be held...(I grew out of that) my birth mom (I was adopted) when I found her at 48 still did drugs and in her 50's the Dr. said she was the HEALTHIEST drug addict they had ever seen (she was Germ/Chezh)...and both my sons are very healthy as well...

So that would be genetics...there are to many example to give here but believe me they will ALL fall into the 5 categories I mentioned...this is science I have proven in my own life.

 

[Oldtimer]

Are some people just taken prematurely, and not in line with God's plan for his or her life? After all, would God really allow a Child of His to die at the hands of a brutal, homicidal maniac?

Yes, happened when God allowed His only begotton Son to die.

And, it's still happening today. Brutal, homicidal maniacs, attack and kill unborn babies, His children, His creation, even as I type.

We know not His divine plan or purpose for any individual when they are conceived. Why am I still here, instead of being killed in an auto accident 20 some years ago? (or one of a number of close calls over the years) When my purpose for being here comes to an end, He will call me home. How? Does it matter? At some point, this fleshly body will die. Even if I'm standing on my front porch and watching Him in the clouds. This body has to pass away when I receive a new one free from the defects that Adam's fall passed along to me.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Seems to me that some of you have a mighty low view of God when a couple of loser brothers can thwart His plans and purposes.

I don't understand how it all works, but either He's God in control of all events both big and little or he's a rather weak being at His creations command and decisions.

 

[salzer mtn]

Rev1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the key's of hell and of DEATH. Job 12:9-10 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this ? In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the BREATH of all mankind. People needs to understand if God is not in control of all things then someone else or some circumstance is, so therefore that other thing or person would be God in the time of the occurrence

 

[Jedi Knight]

Yes, happened when God allowed His only begotton Son to die.

Was Jesus death allowed or was it determined? Luke 22:22

 

[salzer mtn]

Was Jesus death allowed or was it determined? Luke 22:22

Act's 4:26-28, The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.

27For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

28For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
Act's 2:23 Him, being delievered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crusified and slain.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[Oldtimer]

Was Jesus death allowed or was it determined? Luke 22:22

Why does it matter? Especially in conjunction with this thread?

He died. He did not die of natural causes, as we normally define that term. He was "murdered or killed" at the hands of other men.

One of the things I try to stay away from on this forum are all the variations of the "was it determined" debates.

Luke 22: KJB
22 And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!

At this stage in my walk of faith, I'm far more concerned with His words on either side of the prhase "as it was determined". God decided (determined). Right now, that's enough for me.

 

[Yeshua1]

....at the hand of another's anger, drunkenness, or foolishness; or mother natures acts??

Someone said to me the other day, about those who died in Boston and West, TX, that it was "just" their time!

My question is: "Was it?"

I know that we all have an appointed time to die; but, does God, who apparently has that time all planned out, allow it to come by way of evil or a senseless accident? Or maybe even during a natural disaster?

I am just thinking out loud, but are things that happen to take a life from this earth, other than some form of age related, or illness-related death, His plan or will for us. Even in a Does God put some here just to die in battle or in the heat of a war?

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. I do not think that people who are killed, like on 9/11 were necessarily meant to die then. I think those are unnatural deaths, and that they take life before the pre-ordained time God had set upon that life when they came into this life?

Are some people just taken prematurely, and not in line with God's plan for his or her life? After all, would God really allow a Child of His to die at the hands of a brutal, homicidal maniac?

God knows all things that will happen to us, and that the time/date/manner of when we die to go on to meet Him is all within His control!

Think ALL of us can look back abnd see an accident, sickness, something that might have been the day for us to die, but it was not yet, for we are still here!

look at all that god allowed paul and peter to survive, and yet both in the Will of God can killed horrible fashion, one crucified, other beheaded!

 

[Tom Butler]

Act's 4:26-28, The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.

27For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

28For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
Act's 2:23 Him, being delievered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crusified and slain.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

We can add Acts 17:26, Paul witnessing to the philosophers on Mars Hill:

And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

In other words, he has determined how long we will live and where we will live

And Job 14:6

Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass

Okay, here's Daniel 4;35

[all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing,
and he does according to his will among the host of heaven
and among the inhabitants of the earth;
and none can stay his hand or say to him, “What have you done?”

How do these scriptures fit in with man's will, with accidents, all that?

I don't know how that works. But there's no equivocation here.

 

[Tom Butler]

All this reminds me of one of my pastors years ago, who was asked the age-old question, "Preacher how do you resolve the conflict between God's sovereignty and man's will??

His answer, "Well, didn't know they'd had a fallin' out."

salzer mtn quoted Acts 2:23, which speaks to both.

Him, being delievered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crusified and slain

God determined that Jesus would die. It was a done deal from eternity.
He determined that it would be done by wicked hands.

God determined it, but those who did it were described as wicked . They were held responsible, and declared guilty. When I get to heaven, I'm going to ask him about that. Everybody get in line behind me, because I've got a bunch of questions to ask Him.