Is it really "Our time to die" when murdered or killed....

[Matt22:37-39]

:laugh:......................................................

 

[Aaron]

Hey, lady. Shut up.

 

[Matt22:37-39]

:laugh:....................................................................

 

[saturneptune]

edited.....

I just caught what you said to me, and my post was nothing but gracious. Tell you what happened. The Chairman of the Deacons came up to me at the evening service, and told me what you had typed in response to my letter, as the quote was caught even after edited my a moderator. It is one thing to call names, or give jabs, but that was just totally out of line. To have a fellow deacon come up and inform me in person that this is the message that was typed at church is quite something I am not used to.

It is obvious you do not know how to take sound advice from several sources, and have a total lack of reality on the subject of marriage or basic human respect. My dealings with you is done.

 

[Matt22:37-39]

UNLIKE most who have a FACADE..what you see is what you get with me...Why do I have a feeling my language in private is more tame than yours in public...just saying...I do hate hypocrisy!

You just gave me more pieces to the puzzle...thank you...and goodbye...:wavey:

 

[Yeshua1]

Probably this will delve into free will / monergism. Anyway, does God ordain/force people to commit suicide or murder others based on his divine decree before the creation of the world? If so, maybe it shouldn't be called SUIcide?

God remains full in control, but there is Sin in the world right now, and God permits people to still make the choices they do for evil/wrong!

 

[Yeshua1]

UNLIKE most who have a FACADE..what you see is what you get with me...Why do I have a feeling my language in private is more tame than yours in public...just saying...I do hate hypocrisy!

You just gave me more pieces to the puzzle...thank you...and goodbye...:wavey:

we all have a easy time pointing out the sins of others, much harder to see our own blame in things...

Part of that ole beam and speck in eye thing!

 

[Tom Butler]

Sigh. What happened to the OP?

Let me see if I can steer this back on track.

The attributes of God are omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence.

If God is all-powerful, then there's nothing he can't do, or can't prevent from happening if He wills. I frankly don't understand why God allows evil when he could prevent it, except that somehow he will ultimately get glory from it.

If God is omniscient, then he knows all, knows all that has happened, and knows all that will happen. And it is obvious that he at least knows the actions of men, including future actions.

We also know that the Bible is filled with instances where God caused things to happen.

And we have this interesting passage from Acts 2:23:

Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

So, it is clear from this passage that Jesus death on the cross was planned by God from eternity. It was going to happen, and there's no way it was not going to happen.

And, that Jesus' death would by by wicked hands. In other words, God planned to use an act by wicked men to carry out his plan. And, that the wicked hands would
would be held responsible. They did it willingly, out of wicked hearts. Yet, it was certain to happen.

I can't explain that.

Then, there's Isaiah 45:7:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things

God creates evil? That's what it says.

Other versions translate it as "calamity."

The point I get from all this is that God is not sitting back, twiddling his thumbs, watching helplessly as events unfold, powerless to do anything but watch.

I draw from all this that everything is going according to God's plan. God is sovereign. Man is not completely free, but free enough.

I have now reached the top of my pay grade.

 

[Tom Butler]

When the Lord takes me home, I am going to ask Him about this. I can visualize it now: "Lord, some of the folks on the Baptist Board were arguing about this: can you straighten us out about Your sovereignty and man's will, and how all that works?"

While I'm there, I'll try to work in a few other questions that have been bugging, so give me a couple of hundred years before your turn comes.

 

[saturneptune]

UNLIKE most who have a FACADE..what you see is what you get with me...Why do I have a feeling my language in private is more tame than yours in public...just saying...I do hate hypocrisy!

You just gave me more pieces to the puzzle...thank you...and goodbye...:wavey:

The thing is, members of BB have gone out of their way to be kind to you and give good advice. You have never met anyone here, and 99% + of your accusations are unjust and unfounded. Most people on this board go to great lengths to make their church life and their day to day life be similar.

For example, I can tell you that Tom Butler, who posts here regularly, goes to my church. His actions are the same wherever he is. When we disagree, as we do at times, he does not curse me as we look at each other eye to eye.

Icon, for another example, and gave you the best advice of this and the other thread, lives his Christianity. He drives a truck, and believe he spends every waking moment studying Scripture and writings about the Bible from history. Yes, he knows how to debate, points out when others are in error or disagree with him, but has never, ever used terms toward me or other members that you use with regularity.

Aaron is another member who is totally honest in his posts and living standards. He does not mince words. He is very good a perception, and his posts in relation to you are right on target.

Many others have given you their ideas based on years of experience, many more years and successful years for that matter than you have managed to accomplish.

Look at the words in your above quote for example. "Unlike most who have a facade" is shooting from the hip, because you know nothing of those who have helped you. The fact is, everyone has a facade to varying degrees because of something called sin. Who are you to set yourself apart above these folks? From reading your posts more than once, the threads you started are based on a genuine hate for others you have shared life with.

I can guarantee you one thing, your language in private is not more tame than those in this board in public, in fact, your language in public, like this board, is light years more evil than most on this board would ever consider using in private in thought or deed.

It seems like you have a real problem with learning lessons from Scripture or life. The Bible gives the purpose of marriage, and the way to relate in marriage. There is a period of time called dating and engagement to get to know a person. Did you pay any attention? Then, once married, problems arise in all marriages. There is back and forth. Did you learn or pay any attention, or did you have a series of knee jerk reactions based on getting even?

Then there is the second marriage. Did you pay any attention during that engagement? Did you learn anything from the first marriage? Did you continue the lets get even, or did you ever learn marriage is a partnership of give and take, making love grow and becoming stronger? Did it ever dawn on you that the Lord is part of every marriage, and that the Lord can salvage any marriage? Or do you continue to play the Sarah Burnhart role with a woe is me chip on your shoulder?

Do you really believe God is sovereign and in charge, or do you believe down deep you are in control? How has that worked for you? As far as solving pieces of the puzzle you speak of, you could not put a round peg in a square hole.

 

[Yeshua1]

When the Lord takes me home, I am going to ask Him about this. I can visualize it now: "Lord, some of the folks on the Baptist Board were arguing about this: can you straighten us out about Your sovereignty and man's will, and how all that works?"

While I'm there, I'll try to work in a few other questions that have been bugging, so give me a couple of hundred years before your turn comes.

think ONLY question we will form and ask Him is "Why was I saved? Why did you dire in order to save a worm such as I?"

 

[just-want-peace]

To return to the OP: To those of you who say that, in essence, no matter how, or when you die, it's "BECAUSE IT'S YOUR TIME", what is your justification for 1) caution while driving, 2) seeking medical help, 3) having your kids stay away from an abandoned buildings due to snakes or other hazards???? If this is your belief, seems you are trying to thwart His will by doing any of the above.
Seriously, just follow that reasoning to a logical conclusion.
This is not to say that God never uses any given method, but to assign all deaths to His SOVEREIGN Wills is a little extreme.
I'm in total agreement that any time there is a death it is certainly in His PERMISSIVE will but not necessarily in His SOVEREIGN will.

 

[Yeshua1]

To return to the OP: To those of you who say that, in essence, no matter how, or when you die, it's "BECAUSE IT'S YOUR TIME", what is your justification for 1) caution while driving, 2) seeking medical help, 3) having your kids stay away from an abandoned buildings due to snakes or other hazards???? If this is your belief, seems you are trying to thwart His will by doing any of the above.
Seriously, just follow that reasoning to a logical conclusion.
This is not to say that God never uses any given method, but to assign all deaths to His SOVEREIGN Wills is a little extreme.
I'm in total agreement that any time there is a death it is certainly in His PERMISSIVE will but not necessarily in His SOVEREIGN will.

is there any difference if one is a chrsitian though, as the Bible states to us to gives thanks and praiseto god in all things, for that isd the will of God for you in chrsit jesus? that God will provode/make a way to either escpe or endure, but still all part of his palns and purpose?

 

[saturneptune]

To return to the OP: To those of you who say that, in essence, no matter how, or when you die, it's "BECAUSE IT'S YOUR TIME", what is your justification for 1) caution while driving, 2) seeking medical help, 3) having your kids stay away from an abandoned buildings due to snakes or other hazards???? If this is your belief, seems you are trying to thwart His will by doing any of the above.
Seriously, just follow that reasoning to a logical conclusion.
This is not to say that God never uses any given method, but to assign all deaths to His SOVEREIGN Wills is a little extreme.
I'm in total agreement that any time there is a death it is certainly in His PERMISSIVE will but not necessarily in His SOVEREIGN will.

First reason is the Lord gave us common sense, and the second reason is that we as humans to not fully understand the mind of God, especially in the mix between His sovereignty and our free will.

 

[Tom Butler]

I'm tempted to start a new thread on the will of God, but since His will is directly related to the OP, I'm keeping it here.

It would be nice if we could simply ask God about this question. We do have enough Scripture to shed some light on the subject.e

The first one that comes to mind is Psalms 135:6

The Lord does whatever pleases him,
in the heavens and on the earth,
in the seas and all their depths.

Here's another one: Isaiah 46:10

Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

One more: Daniel 4:35

And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

These verses, and several others, establish God's absolute sovereignty. Stated briefly, God does what He wants to.

If that is the case, then His purpose must include evil as well as good.

Okay, then, if that's true, isn't God the author of evil? Nope. God has decided to permit evil, to accomplish his purpose. Why? Don't know. But it is clear that He does.

And because of God's character, His perfection, His holiness, it must follow that
it is right for God to permit some sin.
Psalm 76:10:

Surely, the wrath of man shall praise Thee. the remainder of wrath shalt Thou restrain.

God's permissive will in action.

On the other hand God is the active cause of everything good. We see this in Philippians 2:13:

It is God that worketh in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

I'm going to pause here, and let this sink in, and invite reaction and comment.

I'll drop in a bit later to develop this furher.

 

[Matt22:37-39]

The thing is, members of BB have gone out of their way to be kind to you and give good advice. You have never met anyone here, and 99% + of your accusations are unjust and unfounded. Most people on this board go to great lengths to make their church life and their day to day life be similar.

For example, I can tell you that Tom Butler, who posts here regularly, goes to my church. His actions are the same wherever he is. When we disagree, as we do at times, he does not curse me as we look at each other eye to eye.

Icon, for another example, and gave you the best advice of this and the other thread, lives his Christianity. He drives a truck, and believe he spends every waking moment studying Scripture and writings about the Bible from history. Yes, he knows how to debate, points out when others are in error or disagree with him, but has never, ever used terms toward me or other members that you use with regularity.

Aaron is another member who is totally honest in his posts and living standards. He does not mince words. He is very good a perception, and his posts in relation to you are right on target.

Many others have given you their ideas based on years of experience, many more years and successful years for that matter than you have managed to accomplish.

Look at the words in your above quote for example. "Unlike most who have a facade" is shooting from the hip, because you know nothing of those who have helped you. The fact is, everyone has a facade to varying degrees because of something called sin. Who are you to set yourself apart above these folks? From reading your posts more than once, the threads you started are based on a genuine hate for others you have shared life with.

I can guarantee you one thing, your language in private is not more tame than those in this board in public, in fact, your language in public, like this board, is light years more evil than most on this board would ever consider using in private in thought or deed.

It seems like you have a real problem with learning lessons from Scripture or life. The Bible gives the purpose of marriage, and the way to relate in marriage. There is a period of time called dating and engagement to get to know a person. Did you pay any attention? Then, once married, problems arise in all marriages. There is back and forth. Did you learn or pay any attention, or did you have a series of knee jerk reactions based on getting even?

Then there is the second marriage. Did you pay any attention during that engagement? Did you learn anything from the first marriage? Did you continue the lets get even, or did you ever learn marriage is a partnership of give and take, making love grow and becoming stronger? Did it ever dawn on you that the Lord is part of every marriage, and that the Lord can salvage any marriage? Or do you continue to play the Sarah Burnhart role with a woe is me chip on your shoulder?

Do you really believe God is sovereign and in charge, or do you believe down deep you are in control? How has that worked for you? As far as solving pieces of the puzzle you speak of, you could not put a round peg in a square hole.

Just got home and all I can say to you is....:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Showed this to may pastor who thinks some of you are tools of Satan!

 

[righteousdude2]

Can we get off the side show and back to the OP??? Please...

....we've gotten way off the intent of this OP. Let's stop being taken to places that are not relevant to the current babble, or I'll start another thread and pray we can keep in on track.

Just a reminder: When someone dies a horrific death; is murdered; killed in war; dies tragically by drowning or airplane crash [car crashes too], is that God's appointed time, or just an unfortunate blip in the radar of the cycle of life??? :type:

 

[saturneptune]

Just got home and all I can say to you is....:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Showed this to may pastor who thinks some of you are tools of Satan!

Yep thats me, a tool of Satan. He got me through 37 years of marriage that grows stronger every day. No doubt the Holy Spirit guided you through your two divorces.

 

[saturneptune]

....we've gotten way off the intent of this OP. Let's stop being taken to places that are not relevant to the current babble, or I'll start another thread and pray we can keep in on track.

Just a reminder: When someone dies a horrific death; is murdered; killed in war; dies tragically by drowning or airplane crash [car crashes too], is that God's appointed time, or just an unfortunate blip in the radar of the cycle of life??? :type:

Yes, thank you for refocusing me. It might be unfortunate, but the way I read Scripture, it is the time appointed that person to die, as per Hebrews 9:27. As to the whys and how fair it is, I cannot say, because I do not know the inner thoughts of the Lord.

 

[Oldtimer]

Yes, thank you for refocusing me. It might be unfortunate, but the way I read Scripture, it is the time appointed that person to die, as per Hebrews 9:27. As to the whys and how fair it is, I cannot say, because I do not know the inner thoughts of the Lord.

IMO, that's it in a nutshell.

Think for a moment about all the times we've heard of people walking away from troubles when we can't understand how it was possible that they survived. Auto accidents, crumbled buildings, plane crashes, attempted murder, etc. It wasn't their appointed time. It was for those around them who did not walk away.

"As to the why's and how fair it is, I cannot say, because I do not know the inner thoughts of the Lord." -- Amen!