is it right for men to post in forums moderated by women?

[Jimmy C]

I have a question.

Why is it that 1 timothy 2 is taken so literally, but other passages of scripture that deal with women are disregarded. Phoebe a deacon, Priscilla taught Apollos, Deborah a Judge, Philips daughters that prophesied, other women that worked hand in hand with Paul.

 

[timothy 1769]

Originally posted by Jimmy C:
You want a spriptural reference about women with authority over men? How about the Book of Judges.

thanks jimmy. do you see deborah's experience as normative? how do you explain the genesis and timothy scriptures then?

i think deborah was a special case, a special calling verified by prophecies and/or other miracles. i think other women that show similar signs would be justified in asuming authority over men if god so commanded.

i think god made deborah a judge to show that the general subordination of women to men wasn't due to women's inherent inability. but even in this scripture, note the command was from god, and she only went because barak wouldn't go otherwise. of course, god was still working providentially to make his point.

that's my theory, anyway.

 

[dianetavegia]

but i don't see this kind of informal information exchange qualifying as "teaching",

Then why does it matter if I am the name at the top of the forum or just a woman who posts her ideas after yours?

I am not under conviction about this.

Diane

 

[timothy 1769]

regarding women in authority over men, we also have this scripture:

Isaiah 3:12
As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

read the entire chapter, it's clear to me the god doesn't see women being in charge of men as a good thing.

 

[Jimmy C]

Timothy,

In general I think the scriptures are very supportive of women in ministry. The reason I look at the cultural issues Paul was dealing with are precisley because the 1 tim passage is one of the few that actually limits women.

Who am I to say that any woman is not called specificaly by God for the ministry she is performing, just as he called Deborah, Priscilla, Phoebe etc.

Could it be that the problem was in one particular church in Pauls time that had one or more very boisterous women that were keeping others from learing?

 

[donnA]

Your complaint seems ot be against yourself as you ost in forum moderated by women, and you post in threads started by women, and responded to by women, and in answer to women
It seems you are your own problem.
Now how to fix it?
Do not post in a forum modersted by a woman.
Do not post in a topic started by a woman.
Do not post in a topic where women have responded.
Do not respond to any women in any forum.

See there, you've fixed your problem.

Next, think about your heart, somethings wrong if you dislike women as much as I've seen in this thread.

 

[timothy 1769]

Originally posted by dianetavegia:
Then why does it matter if I am the name at the top of the forum or just a woman who posts her ideas after yours?

posting after me is in no way an expression of authority over me. but acting as a moderator, an interpreter and enforcer of the baptist board policy, is.

I am not under conviction about this.

keep in mind eve wasn't under conviction about the fruit.

i think a better concern is: does my position square with the word of god, or not?

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Originally posted by timothy 1769:
i don't know, maybe there shouldn't be any female managers, along with all the other things you described. at this point i personally wouldn't take a job under the direct authority of a female manager.

While I respect your request for Scriptural support, practically every Biblical Scholar agrees with the thought that Paul's instruction in Chapter 2 of I Timothy refers to the Church. Although it does not specifically state that it only applies to the church, the same could said for the idea that it applies to every facet of life as it does not specifically state that either.

If you "personally wouldn't take a job under the direct authority of a female manager," then I would strongly advise you not to pursue a career in the corporate world. Inevitably, it is bound to happen.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by timothy 1769:
please convince me

if there's anything i'd love to be wrong about, it's this.

Oh, man, you mean we gotta have a real discussion now?? Well, let's start at the beginning. Would you kindly post the bible verses that you believe say women should not have authority over men? Then we can go over them one by one. Much thanks

 

[timothy 1769]

Originally posted by katie Bond...007:
Next, think about your heart, somethings wrong if you dislike women as much as I've seen in this thread.

it seems your position must be pretty weak if you have to resort to personal insults, but by all means prove me wrong if you can.

so please bring forth your well supported scriptural arguments, but be sure to fully account for any discrepancies with all the scriptures i've presented thus far.

i sincerely want to know the will of god in this area.

 

[Jimmy C]

Timothy

I checked several commentaries regarding The Isiah 3:12 passage, they all said that the verse was not about women per se, but about weak effiminate rulers i.e the current king of Isreal

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Originally posted by timothy 1769:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Squire Robertsson:
It is worth noting that any moderator on this board holds his or her office at the invitation and discretion of the Webmaster. I hasten to point out that our Webmaster is most definitly a male. So, we are dealing with a case of derived responsibility and authority.

isn't all authority derived from god? if so, wouldn't your argument make all the scriptures dealing with authority between men and women of none effect? </font>[/QUOTE]It means that any authority a moderator (male or female)has is derived from the Webmaster. It means that it is his call on who is a moderator here. If he decides to delegate responsiblitites with the commensurate authority to carry out those repsonsibilities, that is his business. If you have a problem with his delegate r and a to some of our sisters in Christ, then you will have to take the matter up with him.

 

[timothy 1769]

Originally posted by Terry_Herrington:
I also have a question. Should a woman lead a man to Christ, or would it be better to allow him to go to hell in order to uphold the traditional understanding of these Scriptures?

i don't think leading someone to christ involves an authority relationship.

teaching is not simply passing on knowledge, its a relationship where the student submits to the greater knowledge and wisdom of his teacher. a teacher is in charge of his students. while aquilla and priscilla corrected apollos on some doctrine, he never become their student!

i believe this understanding harmonizes all the scriptures.

ps - debating isn't teaching either, even though it's possible someone might learn something, even me

 

[timothy 1769]

squire,

so say we have a fully qualified pastor. in his church he decides to delegate all of his authority to women, so women are preaching, teaching, rebuking, etc. would there be any sin in that?

 

[timothy 1769]

Originally posted by Jimmy C:
I checked several commentaries regarding The Isiah 3:12 passage, they all said that the verse was not about women per se, but about weak effiminate rulers i.e the current king of Isreal

jimmy,

even if correct, i don't see how that helps - god would then be saying israel's leadership was so bad, that it was just as bad as if women really were in charge.

 

[timothy 1769]

Originally posted by Jimmy C:
Why is it that 1 timothy 2 is taken so literally, but other passages of scripture that deal with women are disregarded.

i have no desire to disregard any scripture.

Phoebe a deacon,

servant, kjv. it's possible to serve the church, without exercising any authority over men.

Priscilla taught Apollos,

it's true that aquilla and priscilla corrected apollos's doctrine, but not within a relationship of authority/submission. please see my other post on this.

Deborah a Judge

imo a special case, ordained by god. see my other post.

Philips daughters that prophesied

this does not require exercising authority over men.

other women that worked hand in hand with Paul.

and neither does this.

any more scripture?

 

[timothy 1769]

Originally posted by Jimmy C:
Could it be that the problem was in one particular church in Pauls time that had one or more very boisterous women that were keeping others from learing?

that's conceivable, but i believe god's meaning can come through without having to assume that much. also, paul supports his command by referring back to adam and eve in genesis, indicating rather strongly it applies to all men and women.

to me, it would be like arguing that christ's teaching about divorce only applied to the particular jews he was addressing, even though he referred back to the creation account in genesis. we know from other scripture that wasn't the case.

 

[timothy 1769]

Originally posted by Baptist in Richmond:
Although it does not specifically state that it only applies to the church, the same could said for the idea that it applies to every facet of life as it does not specifically state that either.

sure, but if i tell my kids not to do something, they shouldn't automatically assume i just meant in the house.

If you "personally wouldn't take a job under the direct authority of a female manager," then I would strongly advise you not to pursue a career in the corporate world. Inevitably, it is bound to happen.

well, i already have one. that's part of why i'd love to be wrong. but personal hardship cannot affect my interpretation of scripture.

Luke 14:33
So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

 

[timothy 1769]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by timothy 1769:
please convince me

if there's anything i'd love to be wrong about, it's this.

Oh, man, you mean we gotta have a real discussion now?? Well, let's start at the beginning. Would you kindly post the bible verses that you believe say women should not have authority over men? Then we can go over them one by one. Much thanks

</font>[/QUOTE]i'll be glad to, but i need a little break. whew!

 

[Jimmy C]

Timothy

When scripture is outside the box that you are comforatble with you ignore it or apply your own logic to it.

The greek word for deacon and servant is the same, translators applied thier own bias to Phoebe.

As to Priscilla are you saying that corrected Appolos' doctrine is not coming under the authority of Priscilla!!! I would say she was directly under the authority of priscilla

Acts
26 and he F418 began to speak out boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla R1131 and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the R1132 way of God more accurately.

Your take on Deborah is your INTERPRETATION, the fact is God chose a WOMAN to be Judge then, and he choses women today, no matter how hard headed and hearted we men happen to get!