Is It Right to Stay at a Church If You Disobey the Teaching of the Pastor?

[Steven Yeadon]

I decided to stop posting these personal issues in the General Baptist discussion as not to draw undue attention to myself.

The problem I have currently is that I was given an interpretation of scripture and a call by the Leadership of my church. I disagree with this interpretation of the bible and ignored the call by the Leadership team.

The issue has to deal with tithing, but I want to leave it there so my left hand does not know what my right hand is doing (Matthew 6:3). However, it is pertinent to explain I believe that we are to give a tithe minimum with the money split between the needy, with believers coming before unbelievers, and the rest going to ministers of the Word, which I believe to be evangelists, missionaries, and the local church. I get this from my reading of the bible. The church I am at believes a tithe is the standard amount demanded by God and should all go to the church. If you feel you should go beyond, then this goes to dedicated causes.

This seems downright backwards to me, especially given the Parable of the Sheep and Goats.

Nevertheless, I was fine with this if the church spent generously on missions, charity to the needy, and programs in the budget. However, after getting financial documents I was struck by how little goes into anything but leadership team salaries and the amazing buildings.

Is it OK to purposely buck your leadership team? I feel great conviction to either obey the Leadership team, which would be a bridge too far given my reading of the bible, or leave the church and find another.

I cannot believe this happened really because I recently talked to an elder about theological issues I might have with the church. It turns out the church holds to very old fashioned views like me. It felt great to find a fellowship that agreed with me on all my big points of theology, but when it comes down to valuable resources like money, I don't fully trust my church or the Leadership team.

 

[Reynolds]

I decided to stop posting these personal issues in the General Baptist discussion as not to draw undue attention to myself.

The problem I have currently is that I was given an interpretation of scripture and a call by the Leadership of my church. I disagree with this interpretation of the bible and ignored the call by the Leadership team.

The issue has to deal with tithing, but I want to leave it there so my left hand does not know what my right hand is doing (Matthew 6:3). However, it is pertinent to explain I believe that we are to give a tithe minimum with the money split between the needy, with believers coming before unbelievers, and the rest going to ministers of the Word, which I believe to be evangelists, missionaries, and the local church. I get this from my reading of the bible. The church I am at believes a tithe is the standard amount demanded by God and should all go to the church. If you feel you should go beyond, then this goes to dedicated causes.

This seems downright backwards to me, especially given the Parable of the Sheep and Goats.

Nevertheless, I was fine with this if the church spent generously on missions, charity to the needy, and programs in the budget. However, after getting financial documents I was struck by how little goes into anything but leadership team salaries and the amazing buildings.

Is it OK to purposely buck your leadership team? I feel great conviction to either obey the Leadership team, which would be a bridge too far given my reading of the bible, or leave the church and find another.

I cannot believe this happened really because I recently talked to an elder about theological issues I might have with the church. It turns out the church holds to very old fashioned views like me. It felt great to find a fellowship that agreed with me on all my big points of theology, but when it comes down to valuable resources like money, I don't fully trust my church or the Leadership team.

I have the same burr in my saddle. Our church consumes about 97% on Its self. Almost our entire missions budget comes from special offerings. Very, very, little of the general fund goes to anything other than church expense. I give about 3% to my church and about 12% to a missionary in Guatemala. Leadership does not get copies of my tax return. They don't know what I make. None of their business.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

My church 'tithes' all the giving before it does anything else.
That seems to me to be a good way to go.

However, unless your church is demanding to see your bank account to check that you are tithing, I would not leave. If the preaching and teaching ministry of the church is sound, that is where you need to be at the present time IMO.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I decided to stop posting these personal issues in the General Baptist discussion as not to draw undue attention to myself.

The problem I have currently is that I was given an interpretation of scripture and a call by the Leadership of my church. I disagree with this interpretation of the bible and ignored the call by the Leadership team.

The issue has to deal with tithing, but I want to leave it there so my left hand does not know what my right hand is doing (Matthew 6:3). However, it is pertinent to explain I believe that we are to give a tithe minimum with the money split between the needy, with believers coming before unbelievers, and the rest going to ministers of the Word, which I believe to be evangelists, missionaries, and the local church. I get this from my reading of the bible. The church I am at believes a tithe is the standard amount demanded by God and should all go to the church. If you feel you should go beyond, then this goes to dedicated causes.

This seems downright backwards to me, especially given the Parable of the Sheep and Goats.

Nevertheless, I was fine with this if the church spent generously on missions, charity to the needy, and programs in the budget. However, after getting financial documents I was struck by how little goes into anything but leadership team salaries and the amazing buildings.

Is it OK to purposely buck your leadership team? I feel great conviction to either obey the Leadership team, which would be a bridge too far given my reading of the bible, or leave the church and find another.

I cannot believe this happened really because I recently talked to an elder about theological issues I might have with the church. It turns out the church holds to very old fashioned views like me. It felt great to find a fellowship that agreed with me on all my big points of theology, but when it comes down to valuable resources like money, I don't fully trust my church or the Leadership team.

I say leave them...look if ya can’t trust them

 

[David Kent]

I knew somebody who made a legal agreement so he could set a charitable trust account which he could donate money to tax free and could then pay to his church or missionaries as wished. His lawyer who set up the trust fund thought he was mad to set a trust to give his money away.

He set up the fund as he didn't believe his church was worthy of all his tithe.

There is of course, no command to the church to give tithes. So any pastor or church who demand tithes is unbiblical.

 

[Yeshua1]

I have the same burr in my saddle. Our church consumes about 97% on Its self. Almost our entire missions budget comes from special offerings. Very, very, little of the general fund goes to anything other than church expense. I give about 3% to my church and about 12% to a missionary in Guatemala. Leadership does not get copies of my tax return. They don't know what I make. None of their business.

We have set aside 11 % of the monthly Gross tithes to cover our missionary funding, and also additional 10 % to go back to our Baptist Conferance..

 

[Reynolds]

We have set aside 11 % of the monthly Gross tithes to cover our missionary funding, and also additional 10 % to go back to our Baptist Conferance..

I commend you. I am sure you are WELL in excess of the average church's giving.

 

[David Kent]

Do you expect those who are very poor, say those who have to rely on food banks, to tithe?

 

[rockytopva]

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. - 1 Corinthians 11:3

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. - Romans 8:14

You are first and foremost led by the Spirit and your head is Christ. I would say...

1. If God has led you to a church you must be subject to the leadership. If the leadership does wrong you have the right to say something about it, going first to them alone. If that does not work then you must pray that the Lord would guide you to another church.
2. Church gossip - Including the "Whats wrong with the church crowd" is evil.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Do you expect those who are very poor, say those who have to rely on food banks, to tithe?

I would hope they would try to. I rely on charity and try to give back.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

I say leave them...look if ya can’t trust them

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. - 1 Corinthians 11:3

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. - Romans 8:14

You are first and foremost led by the Spirit and your head is Christ. I would say...

1. If God has led you to a church you must be subject to the leadership. If the leadership does wrong you have the right to say something about it, going first to them alone. If that does not work then you must pray that the Lord would guide you to another church.
2. Church gossip - Including the "Whats wrong with the church crowd" is evil.

I am struck by this advice, honestly I feel greater peace going to another fellowship. The issue is that the tithing stance is on the website under the "give" tab. This means it's highly unlikely to change.

Rockytopva is right that I am under authority or not. If I sense a reason not to be under authority any longer, it must be worked out with leadership or I should leave. As I am not under authority any more in my heart. I will make contact with leadership, with the intention to leave if I feel I cannot be under their authority for doctrinal reasons.

Gossip is wrong, and I must come clean with my church in the end. Talking only behind their backs is wrong.

Earth Wind and Fire is right about trust. If I have lost trust there is a crisis, and it must be resolved. This is the conclusion of some research as well.

I've been recommended a lot of churches, and I live in a big city. It appears more searching is in order. However, maybe dropping in to see if I like the place is a bad method, given theology matters so much to me. I may need to just email fellowships to get their stances on big issues of doctrine to me, and then visit those places that check out.

 

[Yeshua1]

I commend you. I am sure you are WELL in excess of the average church's giving.

I think have read somewhere the average amount given by Christians and churches about 3 %.

 

[Yeshua1]

Do you expect those who are very poor, say those who have to rely on food banks, to tithe?

I would expect those who have been finally blessed of the Lord to be giving a much higher proportionally amount, as someone who God has allowed to make millions and more should give back much higher rate than a single mom with kids!

 

[Steven Yeadon]

I think have read somewhere the average amount given by Christians and churches about 3 %.

The latest poll I saw was 5% for missions. It was considered a scandal given how much went to salaries and buildings.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

I believe I should represent my church properly in their spending, given it may seem they are being greedy.

They give 10% to missions, which is double the scandalous average for churches.

They give 3% to programs and charitable ministries. This is why I really have a problem and may be leaving. The Parable of the Sheep and the Goats along with the example of the Offering gathered by Paul to those afflicted in Jerusalem in the NT, seems to demand significantly more to the needy. If the tithe is a standard amount that is all to be given to the church. I mean where is the rule that every third year the temple gives all the tithe to the poor?

Around 21% goes to our structural debt, which is in the millions because the Great Recession hit the church so hard it took out millions in loans.

17% goes to the amazing buildings to be maintained. This seems right to me, given the buildings are so much better than my last church. Thy want to construct even more buildings to "tighten up" the campus as it is pretty sprawling for a church, which seems a bit off to me given the current facilities.

49% goes to minister salaries and benefits, which seems pretty high to me considering this means that we are paying for a full time senior pastor in salary and benefits for every 50 people.

 

[David Kent]

Our church does not have a collection. We have a box near the entrance for people to put their offerings in. Several transfer money through their bank.

Most bible based Baptist and Evangelical churches around here do not pass plates or bags around but have offering boxes on the wall.

Our church stopped having collections before we joined 23 years ago. I was told that some members thought the offerings would fall, but in fact they increased.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

My church 'tithes' all the giving before it does anything else.
That seems to me to be a good way to go.

However, unless your church is demanding to see your bank account to check that you are tithing, I would not leave. If the preaching and teaching ministry of the church is sound, that is where you need to be at the present time IMO.

Really! Do it right up front huh!

 

[tyndale1946]

Really! Do it right up front huh!

Well the Old Line Primitive Baptist do not tithe 10% but every man gives as he is able to the Elder or the Deacon... But Steve said do it right up front!... I will never forget an Old Line Primitive Baptist Black meeting I attended... After preaching the head Elder said, if ya'll appreciate what you heard, show this Brother your appreciation and love... So up came member after member, in their slick attire, opening their wallets, money belts and rolls of bills... Laying down $10's, $20's, $50's, and $100's on a table up front... Piles and piles of it... The preacher commented The Lord Loveth, A CHEERFUL GIVER!... I kept thinking "Show Me The Money!"... Brother Glen

 

[tyndale1946]

Here's another one you all might enjoy... First of all the Old Line Primitive Baptist preach free grace... This brother kept attending meeting after meeting but never put anything in the plate... Now he was a well to do fella and the Lord had richly blessed him but when the plate came around, nothing... Finally the Pastor and the Deacons went to him to ask him if there was a problem?... He said NO!... I love to hear the doctrine of Free Grace... Grace is Free!... The Pastor commented, there is no doubt about that but the PREACHER IS NOT!... He became a cheerful giver!... Brother Glen

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Thanks to all of you. I now feel between churches. I have a short list already though of new ones, mostly IFB type, since in Orlando they skew most conservative in my part of town. I do know of some conservative SBC churches a ways from me, though.

When I posted the spending of my current church, did it look out of order?

I plan to contact my current church Monday or Tuesday and talk things out, as I just met the Executive pastor recently to talk theology.