Is It Right...

[ktn4eg]

Is it right for a pastor to consider himself to be "God's Anointed" in the same sense that David considered King Saul to be God's anointed (i.e., "You'd better not touch 'God's Anointed'!")?

 

[Amy.G]

No. He is a man just like everyone else. He has been given the gift of pastor in the same manner someone else is given the gift of evangelism or helps or teaching. The church does not belong to the pastor. It belongs to Christ and HE is the head, not the pastor.

 

[OldRegular]

Is it right for a pastor to consider himself to be "God's Anointed" in the same sense that David considered King Saul to be God's anointed (i.e., "You'd better not touch 'God's Anointed'!")?

I have heard that from some "charismatic" types when I criticized the Kenneth Copeland type.

 

[Yeshua1]

I have heard that from some "charismatic" types when I criticized the Kenneth Copeland type.

that would be because that ministry is under Antichrist, not the Spirit of Christ, and they, and many other ministries in charasmatic circles see the "5 fold ministries" as being essentially modern day prophets/Apostles "touch not Lords Annoited!"

 

[agedman]

Is it right for a pastor to consider himself to be "God's Anointed" in the same sense that David considered King Saul to be God's anointed (i.e., "You'd better not touch 'God's Anointed'!")?

In IFB circles, more than one preacher has used this example.

The late Jack Hyles and his clones used it and still use it to cover up huge and disgusting sinful behavior of them self and others of certain influence.

Certain of his type (think Frank Norris background) use it as a club of manipulation and control.


One of the reasons why I think Baptist churches need a group of Elders in which the pastor is NOT consider an elder, but the pastor.

 

[Scarlett O.]

While David did not "touch" Saul, but he most definitely rebuked him publicly. Saul was wrong - dead wrong in his rebellion against God and David let him know it.

I Samuel 24 :12-13 - "I'll let the LORD decide which one of us has done right. I pray that the LORD will punish you for what you're doing to me, but I won't do anything to you. An old proverb says, 'Only evil people do evil things,' and so I won't harm you." ​

Preachers are anointed with the Holy Spirit upon their salvation experience, but so is every other Christian anointed with that exact same unction.

1 Chron 16:22 Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.

Ps 105:15 Saying, Touch not mine anointed and do my prophets no harm.

In context, the "anointed" is not the modern day pastor or preacher. The "anointed" of "touch not mine anointed" is the nation of Israel. God was commanding the enemies of Israel not to harm His people.

Psalm 105:7-15 (New King James)​

7 He is the LORD our God;

His judgments are in all the earth.
8 He remembers His covenant forever,
The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations,
9 The covenant which He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac,
10 And confirmed it to Jacob for a statute,
To Israel as an everlasting covenant,
11 Saying, “To you I will give the land of Canaan
As the allotment of your inheritance,”
12 When they were few in number,
Indeed very few, and strangers in it. ​

13 When they went from one nation to another,

From one kingdom to another people,
14 He permitted no one to do them wrong;
Yes, He rebuked kings for their sakes,
15 Saying, “Do not touch My anointed ones,
And do My prophets no harm.” ​

God was chastising foreign nations and warning them to leave His people alone. That's it. That's all.

Here are three really good, and I mean REALLY good studies on what "touch not my anointed" means and what it doesn't mean.
http://www.letusreason.org/Pent47.htm
http://www.helium.com/items/616104-...-mine-anointed-examining-a-misunderstood-text
http://www.inplainsite.org/html/the_anointing.html

 

[preachinjesus]

Is it right for a pastor to consider himself to be "God's Anointed" in the same sense that David considered King Saul to be God's anointed (i.e., "You'd better not touch 'God's Anointed'!")?

Only if he has an inferiority complex...or he is trying to do something that requires mindless simpletons and not discerning believers.

That said, if a pastor is truly doing the work of the ministry, he will bring around him accountability mechanisms (and people) who will keep him honest. When a pastor starts removing the thinking people who will patiently strive for authenticity, replacing them with simple "yes" men and women, you should be concerned.

The ministry is a great place for authentic people who seek God's glory above all things, particularly at the sacrifice of our inner wills and desires. It is also a terrible place for pompous self-promoters to push an agenda and corrupt the Gospel.

I've seen both. The former builds upon the foundation of Christ, the latter is a pox and destroys any chance of longevity.

 

[Jerome]

Also a big problem in 'Reformed Baptist' circles:

Article by John Reisinger:

The following article is written primarily for Reformed Baptists only because that is the group with which I have been identified for over twenty years. There are Brethren Assemblies, Presbyterian, Independent, and Charismatic churches, as well as other types of Baptists, that clearly fit the description given in these pages.
. . . . .
I recently preached at the First John Bunyan Conference on the subject of law and grace. About fifty people attended from various places and nearly all of them had recently left a church with a heavy "law ministry" where the Elders were the "Lords and Masters" of the Assembly.
. . . . .
Many of the people at the John Bunyan Conference can testify concerning both the message and the method that forced them to leave churches that they dearly loved. In each case, the Elder was "the anointed of God" that dare not be challenged by "ordinary Christians." The hallowed creed produced by our "Godly inspired forefathers" became a sword to silence anyone daring to ask a question. The creed and the pastor's personal power became the final authority over the church and the conscience of the individual.
. . . . .
Nearly every single split that I know of that has occurred in a Reformed Baptist Church in the last ten years was over what Chantry called the "domineering spirit in the elders." The people at the conference last week told the same story no matter what location they came from.
. . . . .
I spent ten years in evangelism and preached in an average of forty churches a year. The constant problem that I encountered in many Reformed Baptist churches was the extent of the authority of the church and the eldership. Since the pastor was the "duly authorized" representative of God in the local institution, the problem was really his personal authority over the life and conscience of the people. The pastor that I spoke of earlier who revoked everyone's membership appears to believe and teach that when he preaches from the pulpit his message is God's Word. He is the "voice of God" in that assembly. One man challenged this concept and said, "My conscience is wed to Scripture alone." The preacher responded emphatically, "Your conscience is under the authority of my preaching of the Scriptures." Many Reformed preachers would not dare say that out loud, but they give every evidence of believing it in their hearts. They practice such an attitude in their ministries. This is the one thing that has hindered and hampered the Reformed Baptist movement ever since the doctrines of grace became secondary to the all consuming drive for a "true New Testament institution with duly authorized officers.

 

[12strings]

While David did not "touch" Saul, but he most definitely rebuked him publicly. Saul was wrong - dead wrong in his rebellion against God and David let him know it.

I Samuel 24 :12-13 - "I'll let the LORD decide which one of us has done right. I pray that the LORD will punish you for what you're doing to me, but I won't do anything to you. An old proverb says, 'Only evil people do evil things,' and so I won't harm you." ​

Preachers are anointed with the Holy Spirit upon their salvation experience, but so is every other Christian anointed with that exact same unction.




In context, the "anointed" is not the modern day pastor or preacher. The "anointed" of "touch not mine anointed" is the nation of Israel. God was commanding the enemies of Israel not to harm His people.

Psalm 105:7-15 (New King James)​

7 He is the LORD our God;

His judgments are in all the earth.
8 He remembers His covenant forever,
The word which He commanded, for a thousand generations,
9 The covenant which He made with Abraham,
And His oath to Isaac,
10 And confirmed it to Jacob for a statute,
To Israel as an everlasting covenant,
11 Saying, “To you I will give the land of Canaan
As the allotment of your inheritance,”
12 When they were few in number,
Indeed very few, and strangers in it. ​

13 When they went from one nation to another,

From one kingdom to another people,
14 He permitted no one to do them wrong;
Yes, He rebuked kings for their sakes,
15 Saying, “Do not touch My anointed ones,
And do My prophets no harm.” ​

God was chastising foreign nations and warning them to leave His people alone. That's it. That's all.

Here are three really good, and I mean REALLY good studies on what "touch not my anointed" means and what it doesn't mean.
http://www.letusreason.org/Pent47.htm
http://www.helium.com/items/616104-...-mine-anointed-examining-a-misunderstood-text
http://www.inplainsite.org/html/the_anointing.html

Excellent notes on the context and meaning of this phrase!

The moral of the story: You are allowed to rebuke and correct the Lord's anointed...Just dont' Kill him!

 

[Don]

Let's not forget that Moses was guilty of murder. Or the old prophet and the young man of God in 1 Kings 13. As Scarlett pointed out, David rebuked Saul. David, a man after God's own heart, was guilty of adultery and murder. Paul stood by and cheered on the men who stoned Stephen.

Did any of these "get away" with their atrocities? Or were able to hide behind "touch not God's anointed"? Nope; each had to deal with it in some fashion.

"Touch not" is merely an attempt to hide behind scripture, an attempt to use scripture to justify their iniquity.

 

[kyredneck]

Let's not forget that Moses was guilty of murder. Or the old prophet and the young man of God in 1 Kings 13. As Scarlett pointed out, David rebuked Saul. David, a man after God's own heart, was guilty of adultery and murder. Paul stood by and cheered on the men who stoned Stephen.

Did any of these "get away" with their atrocities? Or were able to hide behind "touch not God's anointed"? Nope; each had to deal with it in some fashion.

"Touch not" is merely an attempt to hide behind scripture, an attempt to use scripture to justify their iniquity.

:thumbsup:

 

[Alive in Christ]

Well, a several posts above this one was the idea of the Pastor having an "acountability partner" or two, for the purpose of keeping him in line.

Some churchs actually want all the members hook up in pairs and keep each other "acountable"

I have never done anything like that and never will.

The material I am posting will speak better then I could. Obviously I agree with it.

This is an excerpt, with a link to the entire artical....

Authority and Accountability in the Bible (part 2)

Peter Ditzel

Shape Up, Gertrude!

Nevertheless, it is an absolute fad in the church to have an accountability partner. Morris is accountable to Mavis, and Mavis is accountable to Gertrude. They meet and tell each other the gory details of their personal lives. Then they slap each other with, "You shouldn't be doing that. You should be doing this. Go out and do this and report back to me next week."

My friend, this is only one step away from confessing to a priest and having him tell you to do twenty Hail Marys. It is sheer cultic legalism. Christianity is not about having someone keep us in line by telling us what to do or what not to do.

It is about growing in the grace we have in Jesus Christ. Yes, there is a way to live the Christian life. But it is a gracious way that we find by communicating with God through His Word and prayer. And His Word says nothing whatsoever about accountability partners.

This is not to say that we are not to encourage and comfort each other by reminding one another of the Gospel, God's promises, and the hope of Christ's return. Many Scriptures—such as Hebrews 3:13; 10:25; Romans 15:14; and Colossians 3:16—address this.

But these are general, loving reminders to each other of God's grace, not specific, legalistic works imposed on specific people.

Gotcha Covered


Look high and low and you will never find a biblical excuse for the idea of seeing either the church or a human being (other than Jesus Christ, who is both God and man) as a covering. Those who try to push the idea that you need to be under the cover of the church or under the cover of the pastor or under the cover of anyone else are really saying that you need to be under the control or authority of the church, the pastor, or someone else.

But does the Bible say that you are to be under the authority of a church or person?

Under the Authority of…?

In Matthew 20:25-28, Jesus says, "Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister [diakonos—"servant"]; And whosoever will be chief [prōtos—"first"] among you, let him be your servant [doulos—"slave"]:


Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many." In these verses, Jesus is telling His followers that they are not to be like the princes of the nations and exercise authority over people. Instead, they are to be like servants and slaves.


This being true, all other Scriptures, which would seem to say that a pastor, elder, or anyone else in the church can claim to have authority over any of his brethren, must be understood in this light.


"Obey them that have the rule over you…."


There are several Scriptures that are often resorted to in order to demonstrate that church members are to be accountable to pastors. One of these is 1 Timothy 5:17: "Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine."


It is the word "rule" that I want to concentrate on. It is translated from the Greek word proestōtes. It literally means "stand in front," such as to stand in front to preside or to stand in front to lead. It does not at all mean "rule." So, this verse should simply start by saying, "Let the elders who lead well…." To be a leader does not automatically imply authority over the people one leads.

http://www.wordofhisgrace.org/accountable2.htm