Is it the will of God...

[KenH]

Originally posted by Joseph Botwinick:
1. Is it God's will for thousands of babies to be murdered each year at abortion clinics?

2. Then why should we fight God's will by speaking out against abortion?

1. Yes.

2. Because abortion(except to save the life of the mother) is murder and murder is sin.

Exodus 20:13(NASB)
13 “You shall not murder.

 

[Helen]

In other words, Ken, we should go against God's will?

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Helen:
Jesus gave up His life on His own authority

Helen,

Do you believe that we are responsible for Jesus laying down his life?

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Helen:
In other words, Ken, we should go against God's will?

No.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

See now? That wasn't so hard. Was it? So you believe that it is the will of God that thousands of babies be murdered every year, and therefore, sin is the will of God. Also, you believe that we should fight God and his will by speaking out against murder through abortion. Is this correct?

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Joseph Botwinick:
Was it?

So you believe that it is the will of God that thousands of babies be murdered every year, and therefore, sin is the will of God.

Also, you believe that we should fight God and his will by speaking out against murder through abortion. Is this correct?

Since you only want yes or no answers without any explanation of what the answers mean:

No.

Yes.

Yes.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Finally,

At least there are Calvinists out there who are honest about their contempt for God's will. Let's all get out there and fight the will of God by protestiing abortion clinics...

 

[Helen]

Originally posted by Ken H:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Helen:
Jesus gave up His life on His own authority

Helen,

Do you believe that we are responsible for Jesus laying down his life?</font>[/QUOTE]He did it for love of us, Ken. We gave Him the reason, but the decision was His. The act itself was also His.

 

[KenH]

So now answer my question. Are you responsible? A simple yes or no, please.

 

[Helen]

Originally posted by Ken H:
So now answer my question. Are you responsible? A simple yes or no, please.

God is responsible for His own decisions. I am not necessary to Him. The fact that He loves me is pure grace, but does not make me responsible for His decisions. He's a bit bigger and grander than I am...!!!!

 

[KenH]

Let me add, Joseph, that if you think that immeasurable theological questions can be boiled down to simple yes or no answers then I must question the seriousness with which you approach theological studies.

I played along with your game. And now that I have answered questions with a yes or a no questions that have no simple yes or no answers, what have you gained?

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by Ken H:
So now answer my question. Are you responsible? A simple yes or no, please.

From your point of view, no.

 

[KenH]

Thanks, Helen. I must conclude that your answer is "No, I am not responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus."

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by Ken H:
Let me add, Joseph, that if you think that immeasurable theological questions can be boiled down to simple yes or no answers then I must question the seriousness with which you approach theological studies.

I played along with your game. And now that I have answered questions with a yes or a no questions that have no simple yes or no answers, what have you gained?

A little bit of knowledge about what you believe.

 

[KenH]

If anyone thinks they are not responsible for the crucifying Jesus, then he should read this:

Hebrews 6:6(NASB)
6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

If a person can crucify the Son of God a second time, he must have been responsible for crucifying Him a first time.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Without the right to choose, or free will, there is no responsibility. It was all God's plan and he is the only one responsible by your definition.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Joseph Botwinick:
A little bit of knowledge about what you believe.

Actually, you have learned practically nothing as your yes or no restrictions prevented that. All you learned is that I will play along with your silly game.

Proverbs 26:5(NASB)
5 Answer a fool as his folly deserves,
That he not be wise in his own eyes.

I am not saying you are a fool, but I hope you'll understand the comparison with my playing along with your game.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Joseph Botwinick:
Hhe is the only one responsible by your definition.

Not so.

Romans 3:19(NASB)
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;

[ December 26, 2002, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: Ken H ]

 

[Helen]

Originally posted by Ken H:
Thanks, Helen. I must conclude that your answer is "No, I am not responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus."

Are you then saying God was not responsible for His own decisions? Isn't that the entire Calvinist foundation -- the sovereignty of God?

 

[Helen]

Originally posted by Ken H:
If anyone thinks they are not responsible for the crucifying Jesus, then he should read this:

Hebrews 6:6(NASB)
6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

If a person can crucify the Son of God a second time, he must have been responsible for crucifying Him a first time.

Very, very poor logic, actually.

My daughter planted some pansies. The dog dug up a couple. I planted them again. That has nothing to do with the idea that I also planted them the first time! I did not.