Is it valid to use the heretic label?

Lazy or Uncaring

I wholeheartedly agree, and one of the things it tells me is that the person is either too lazy or uncaring to "lead someone back" (if that is even necessary).

Men have struggled forever about the tension between the relationship of God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. It seems to me that if a person is denying EITHER God's sovereignty or man's freedom he has stepped outside the borders of biblical teaching. We all accept the Trinity (3 persons, yet 1 God), we all accept the God-Man status of Jesus (100% God, 100% man). Why does it then seem with this particular issue, we have to choose one or the other when both are present in the Bible? (For references to where, simply follow the pet passages of each side).

 

Seldom prudent, probably, but unfortunately sometimes necessary, maybe?? :tear: :tear:

Ed

 

BTW, I, personally, would not ever include any Arminianism vis-a-vis`Calvinism difference in this, that I can think of.

Oh yeah! Welcome to the Baptist Board, "Inadequate In Myself"! Three things are required here- Bible :thumbsup:, helmet :BangHead:, and flak-jacket or body armor! :tonofbricks: :tongue3:

Ed

 

Boy, is that ever true! We arent shy here about confronting!

There could be certain circumstances where calling someone 'heretic' would serve a purpose to startle them to an awareness of how far off course they are. As in "And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh!'. Jude 1:24

 

flak-jacket on

thanks for the welcome! I have been visiting the site for about a year and simply reading - thought I ought to come on in (even if the water's not fine).

raising the calvinism issue is simply going back to the OP

 

It seems that most are missing the point of the OP. I think he meant to hold down the arguments on BB to keep them from getting out of hand. If I were moderator I would ask that we refrain from calling each other heretics but I am guilty also, so guess I am a pharasee. It was just a good thought that will last for a post or two.

 

I wonder

I am not aware of anyone ever being startled into awareness after being called a heretic. I've only seen it result in anger. "A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger" Prov. 15:1

 

(Oh now, where's my flak jacket?)

Well, when we confront forcefully about the sin in ones life and the dangerous place they are in, making an effort to pull them out of the fire, even if they're angry its o.k. with me if they return to the Lord in humility!

Today, there is such focus on the love of God that many fail to note that there is more of His wrath spoken of in scripture than His love! There is place and appropriate use of each. Discernment tells us which! True caring for the soul that is lost is the main thing!

We have to remember to keep the main thing the main thing!

 

I fully agree with you. I am simply pointing out the way we do what it is we do. Sometimes it's in your face, but in 20 years of ministry I have only seen that work a couple of times. More often than not, it is a gentle leading that will win the day - not charged words.

 

I'm sorry, but I believe it is error to confront in a spirit of condemnation rather than correct in a spirit of love.

Whether one is Calvinistic in belief or more Arminian (there are Free Will Baptists and Calvinist Baptists, for example) it is intellectually dishonest not to recognize that the other side has scripture they can cite to support what they believe. Honest followers of our Lord and Savior disagree on this, and for one to label the other a heretic damages the body of Christ. This is not something to do lightly, or flippantly. I don't care how right I am, if I sin in my "correctness" it is not righteousness. Jesus didn't die for so that we could be right, he died to provide a way so that we could be righteous through Him.

 

Personally I dont think I'd ever actually use that word 'heretic' to confront someone. However, I would confront someone, a fellow believer who continued in known sin, stressing to them the danger of their position! This would certainly never be done to 'prove who is right' as you stated! If we dont care enough for fellow believers to confront and draw them back into fellowship there is a big problem!
The big word 'tolerance' is so overdone today that folks are tempted to just look away and pretend they dont see what is happening! That is not love! Another problem is that some are so afraid of appearing 'judgmental' that they withdraw and refuse to deal with what they see to be known sin in a believers life.
We're talking about the family of God here and should be greatly concerned by what is happening in many churches today! We should also know that if we have iniquity in our heart the Lord will not hear us! If we have true love for Christ and for the brethren we will see and confront what is not right in love without shrinking back in a state of self righteousness that decides its not for us to be concerned about! As believers it is all our concern!

 

Wonderful post, and so great to see the "grace of God" found. I can see the joy and peace you have found in our Lord Jesus Christ.

I'll not enter the Cal & Arm debate here, or the "heretic" for many here consider me to be one, and some have put it in writing. But with solace from Paul the last person Christ spoke to on the subject of salvation, I (we) in Christ through the grace given to us should not think of ourselves " more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
4. For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
5. So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another". So I cannot become upset with the Brothers and Sisters here, for we are family, perhaps on different " Plains", but still on the foundation of Jesus Christ our Lord.

It gets even better as we as read Acts 28:28. From Acts God immediately sends us to the Epistles of Paul, which books are written to the "Body Church" for both Gentile and Jew. He is My only Apostle, and you're only Apostle, and he never lets us forget that. Sadly so very many are winding up in the "Kingdom Church", when they could be in the heavenlies.

Romans 3:27-31, "Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30. Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." We justified through faith are in the "Body Church", and those justified by faith are in the "Kingdom Church". This can clearly been seen in the gospel that James was justified under, and Paul's gospel clearly shows our justification to be different.

Romans 11:13, "For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office". Scripture proves he is the only Apostle to the Gentile in Galatians 2:9 when those of the "Kingdom Church" shake hands with Paul and Barnabas, that they of the "fleshly, earthly circumcision gospel" would not preach their gospel to we Gentiles. As you may know this information is also in Acts 15.

Galatians 2:7-9, "But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8. (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
9. And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision." We only have one (1) Apostle that speaks our language.

Ephesians 3:1-6, " For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2. If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3. How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4. Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5. Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6. That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel". Christ gave to Paul this New (that had been hidden in God) "dispensational gospel", and verse 3 attests to Paul knowing before now, what was not before known. Verse 5 says this New Wisdom given to him, is now being revealed by the Spirit to the "other Apostles, and prophets" in that day.

We see Peter provides evidence of this fact in II Peter 3:15-16, "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16. As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

II Timothy 1:11-13, "Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
12. For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
13. Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus."

 

We will take all the prayers we can get for we surely believe in prayer but don't forget to pray for yourselves while you are at it. We will.

 

It is against the rules to call someone on the BB a heretic. However, one can say a certain belief is heresy. I have done this on the Other Christian Denominations forum when posters promoted views that were unbiblical, such as Jesus is God the Father, Jesus was not fully man, and stuff like that.

I did not always used the word "heresy" but said that such and such was contrary to God's word.

 

That's funny... I've been called a heretic and unsaved both on this board, and nothing was ever said to the individual.

 

Yeah, but you deserved it.
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Just kidding.
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Honest!

Put that down! I said I was just kidding!!!

 

But it's OK because I had my fingers crossed.:tongue3:

 

Did you complain to the mods about the post?

If not, you can't expect them to read every post and act on it. You have to voice a complaint and they will remove it if someone calls you a name, whether "heretic" or any other.

I've had a couple of personal attacks on me removed by the mods because I complained. I was not being called a heretic, but they were personal unwarranted attacks. So speak up next time! You click on the yellow exclamation icon on the offending person's post.

 

I don't mind personal attacks, overall, although lieing about me bothers me a bit. But, calling someone who claims to be saved based on the finished work of the Lord on the cross "unsaved" has always been a no-no on every board I've ever moderated or participated in.

"Heretic" has usually, but not always, been reserved for those who have no Scriptural argument, in general, though, so it doesn't really bother me either.

I just find it ironic that calling someone "unsaved" is overlooked. And, yes, the mods are aware of it.

 

No Jim, definately an UN-orthodox one...

Regards
Bob