DHK,
Your statement:
"When one enters a grocery store it is presumably to buy groceries. The Bible teaches: "Flee every appearance of evil." The groceries do not give an appearance of evil, but the movies do."
In 1611, people understood what the KJV translators meant by "appearance". You can tell what they meant by "appearance" from how they translated that same Greek word 'eidos' in these passages along with the one you stated:
Luke 3:22(KJV)
"And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape[eidos] like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased."
Luke 9:29(KJV)
"And as he prayed, the fashion[eidos] of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering."
John 5:37
"And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape[eidos]."
2 Corinthians 5:7(KJV)
(For we walk by faith, not by sight[eidos]
1 Thessalonians:5:22(KJV)
"Abstain from all
appearance[eidos] of evil."
So now do you understand that 'appearance' here is not how we use it in our modern english? Much bad theology has been made over the years from a misunderstanding of the old English. The NIV and NASB translate in our modern english correctly when they render it as:
1 Thessalonians 5:22(NASB)
"abstain from every form[eidos] of evil."
1 Thessalonians 5:22(NIV)
"Avoid every kind[eidos] of evil."
So yes I should "avoid every kind of evil". We agree on that completely. What is a kind of evil? It is me going to a particular movie that is filled with filth. It is not going to the Movie theater itself.
I would disgree with you that most of what is at the movie theater is filth. There are many movies that do have redeemable value, and this is where Christians must use discernment.
Going to a show does not give the appearance of evil to unbelievers. Going to a bad show does, but not simply entering the movie theater. Sure you could find me some exception to that some place. But most of the time the only people it gives the appearance of evil to is Christians like yourself who have your own preconceived notions.
Your Statement:
"Being a friend of the world is approving those things the world does that may or may not be evil in themselves, but will keep you away from God. VCRs, TVs, movies, the way you dress, the places you go, the things you have, even the way you talk, all determine how worldly you are. And not one of those things may be immoral. Music is a good example. Will I fill my ears with that kind of music that is not edifying, and either mimics the world or is of the world, or will I fill my mind with Godly spiritual music? You have a choice. What will you do. Will you be worldly or Godly?"
None of these things
"determine how worldly you are".
It is the tapes that we play in our "VCRs" that determine if we are worldly or not - not simply having a VCR.
It is the television shows that we watch on our TV that determine if we are worldly or not - not simply having a TV.
It is the movies we watch that determine if we are worldy - not the fact that we watch movies.
It is the immoral or immodest clothes we where that determine if we are worldy, not the fact that the world may like to where the same polo shirt I have on.
It is the immoral and evil places that we go that determine if we are worldly, not the fact that I go to a Baseball game and so does the world.
It is the evil words and evil things we say that make us worldly, not because we use the same english as the world around us.
It is not listening to music that "mimics the world or is of the world" that makes us worldly -for all forms of music, whether folk, Classical or Contemporary music all have their origin in the world. It is listening to music that is has evil and sensual words and motions.
Yes I agree we have a choice, will we listen to and watch the evil movies and music of the world, or will we listen to and watch those things that are not evil.
Your Statement:
"Avoid every appearance of evil. By your very actions of being there you have encouraged it. By extension, if you take one drink (beer) you give one alcoholic the excuse to get drunk. If by chance you may be a pastor the first qualification is "that he be found blameless."
By my action of going to a non-pornagraphic movie I have encouraged someone to go see one?Your logic escapes me.
That would be like me saying by your going on the internet you encourage everyone to look at pornography on the internet since there is so much out there.
And no if I drink one beer I would not be giving an alchohalic an excuse to drink. Thats like saying if I take one bite of pizza I am encouraging a glutton to gorge themselves.
In fact the Scriptures compare the sin of drunkness to the sin of gluttony:
Proverbs 23:20-21(NIV)
"20 Do not join those who drink too much wine
or gorge themselves on meat,
21 for drunkards and gluttons become poor,
and drowsiness clothes them in rags."
The Scriptures only forbid drunkeness. Not drinking wine itself. I know this is going to rabit trail into this whole other discussion about wine. Hopefully not - that is not my point here.
Your Statement:
"The world needs to know that God's people are different. Not just because they don't believe in murder or abortion, but because their entire lifestyle, their way of living is different from the people (the world) around them."
I agree completely with this statement. We need to be different in more way than being against murder and abortion. We need to be different in how we respond to our bosses at work. We need to be different in not using the foul language our coworkers use.
We need to be different by not going to see bad movies, or listening to music with evil words, or buying books that are evil.
That is how we will show them that we are different. If we wear only black and white clothes that does more than show we are different, it shows we are distant. We are to keep Gods Word, not add to it so we can be more different.
I am reminded of few things Spurgeon spoke about the tendency among conservative Christians to add to the Word of God:
"I find ten commandments, and it's as much as I can do to keep them; and I've no desire to make them into eleven or twelve."
And this statement:
"There is growing up in society a Pharisaic system which adds to the commands of God the precepts of men; to that system I will not yield for an hour. The preservation of my liberty may bring upon me the upbraidings of many good men, and the sneers of the self-righteous; but I shall endure both with serenity so long as I feel clear in my conscience before God."
This article can be found at
http://www.spurgeon.org/misc/cigars.htm
Your Statement:
"What is right is right, and what is wrong is wrong.
If it is wrong to lie, then it is always wrong to lie. If it is okay in some cases according to you then you have to take that one up with the Creator who imposed it on you. The same is true with murder.
What is right is right, and what is wrong is wrong.
If it is wrong to lie, then it is always wrong to lie. If it is okay in some cases according to you then you have to take that one up with the Creator who imposed it on you. The same is true with murder. Thankfully I will never be faced with the situation you described because I don't own a gun, and never will. I trust the Lord to take care of me in such situations, and he always has.
Concerning TV, I would not be watching anything embarassing to anyone that would enter my home, even if the individual who entered my home didn't have a TV. Since it would not be offensive in content, I would ask if it would offend him, if it was important news or something like that, or just simply turn it off anyway."
These are all cases of valid cases of "situational ethics" no matter how your try and dance around them.
In one case, to shoot someone would be murder, in the other it would be self-defense.
In one case to watch TV would be fine, in the other it would not, even if the show was fine.
As far as your statement "it is always wrong to lie." - really? What about when Rahab lied to protect the spies in Jericho?
"My parents even believe that much; they are not yet saved. You just stated the one thing that keeps so many people from becoming saved (like my own parents). And that is: "the immoral insider and the moral outsider."
My parents live at a much higher standard than most professing evangelical Christians. Perhaps it is their own self-righteousness that keeps them from Christ. They don't consider themselves as sinners. Their lives are moral and upright. They could set a good example for many a Christian if only they were Christian. They don't do the things that you keep referring to: "practices that are inherently evil in and of themselves." So, taken to its logical conclusion, because my parents don't practice the things of the world (your definition), they must be friends of God, and therefore Christian. Right?
Obviously, being worldly entails much more than overt sinful practices."
Lets zoom in on this statement of yours:
"So, taken to its logical conclusion, because my parents don't practice the things of the world (your definition), they must be friends of God, and therefore Christian. Right?"
I never said not practicing the evil things the world does makes you a friend of God! Works don't save us whether we are saved or unsaved. Boy was that a leap!
Thats great that your parents do live descent lives, but as you and I both know living a righteous life doesn't save you. If we are to be stricter than the unsaved then how about the buddahist monks -they are a lot more strict then we are, boy do we have a long way to go then.
Fortunately the Bible never tells us to make up rules so we can be more different, it just tells us not to do those things which are sin. It is such an easy concept to understand, but so hard to practice. And for some like you, it is not enough, you need to add a few more rules to the pot so you can feel more different.
Hey if that makes you feel closer to God, than by all means do it. If it causes you to judge your brother, then you better re-evaluate your attitude.
Your Statement:
"Be not conformed to this world.
Be conformed to the image of Christ.
Those are two commands given. Sadly, most choose to disobey both."
Yes sir, lets not be like the world in the evil practices it does. Lets be like Christ by doing the righteous things he did.
Sadly, two many people trip over these simple commands. They either do the evil practices of the world, or they add rules to God Word.
Matthew 15:9(NIV)
"They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.'"
1 Corinthians 4:6(NIV)
Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying,
"Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.
IFBReformer
here's my answer.