Is KJVonly a Cult?

While there are moral problems with the cult-like tendencies of KJVonlyism, as immorallity typically is part and parcel of any cult-like group, I was referring in general to the churches that are the most staunch supporters of the KJVO philosophy that I have been involved in and aware of (and these were/are IFB). However, let me point out that I am not referring to KJV preferred churches or groups or that philosophy.

If you want specifics, I'd be glad to give them to you privately. The types of behaviors and wickedness I witnessed while affiliated with the movement are too insidious to be mentioned publicly on the board.

[ September 12, 2001: Message edited by: TomVols ]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Temple:


It's more than offensive, Dr. Bob - its blasphemous. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen, Chris & Dr. Bob. You are both exactly right.

[ September 12, 2001: Message edited by: TomVols ]

 

I will try not to get too far off topic here:

Firstly,

Some are asking what was found to be immoral or unfathomable?? about the KJV only movement.

One, it is not absolutely necessary for me to have an opinion about *everything*, even though I may foster a favorite opinion about something.

Also, I premise that a great deal of freedom and liberty is available for anyone who will realize it is not necessary for them to have an opinion on everything.

It is absolutely permissible, when asked an opinion on an issue to say, "I don't know how I feel about that."

(I'm sure the above can be shredded 50 ways from Sunday; I am not going to attempt to defend it.)

This is wisdom, take it or leave it.

Sooo, I say that to say this:

It wasn't the position of the contents of the KJV per SE that bothered me about the KJV (preferred or only) movement.

It was more the trappings that went with a branded environment of hyper-IFBism (and this is of the variety circa mid 1970s).

KJBO or KJVO seems to come with a homogenization of an entire pseudospiritual culture which requires that its entire doctrinal/practice stratum be swallowed in one gulp.

That seems to be what I see most often by KJBO proponents, anyhow.

I actually left that environment, and got right with God in August of last year, after being backslidden for some time.

Upon my second look at hyper-IFBism, I saw an organization that seemed to yearn to fasten itself around the personalities, and personal beliefs of charismatic icons (i.e. men/preachers).

By associating with the icon, and their organization, people found themselves wanting to affix/connect themselves with demonstrable "success" and what these icons had "accomplished" (which I still find the merits of said success to be somewhat questionable).

What happened immediately as a consequence of this mindset, in my opinion, was an error of Aristotelian logic:

Correctness = (A Certain Version) + (Certain Practices) + (Certain Appearances)+ (Certain Results) + (Agreeing with a Certain Person)+ (Leaning toward Certain Literature) + (Separation as agreed upon by the Foremost Icons)

Incorrectness = An omission or addition to any of the aggregate factors mentioned above in the "Correctness" equation.

For the purpose of brevity, I will call these centers of hyper-IFBism a shrine.

What happened next was a flood of called young men to a shrine, whereever it was in the country, who with good intent and honesty, only wanted to be right.

And, sad for them, were corrupted by the exhilarating feelings which come from being able to lambaste your fellow believers by use of verbal comparisons, finger pointing, name calling, and other character-destroying devices which we so innocently term "debate."
Oh, and I don't want to leave out the constant "work, work, work, work, work."

In other words, they loved being gung-ho, scriptural or not.

For this reason, when a "new believer" or even someone who identifies themselves as a "believer" meets someone of this persuasion (I won't say Fundamentalist, it is a disgrace to the word), either gently or overtly, they find themselves being quizzed.

"What do you believe about this? What do you say about that? What is your opinion? Does your wife wear pants? Where are your kids hair cut? Do they attend a Christian School? Do you take a bible to work? Are you as right with God as I am?" etc., etc., ad nauseum.

The momentum of the trend in hyper-IFBism of the 1970s has arrived in the poisonous canker sore of the early 2000s. There is no Love. The Greatest Commandment. There is a lot of demonstrable hate.

It was my understanding that true fundamentalism as it goes with Baptists, really only dealt with 5 "fundamental" things on a personal level:

1. Prayer 2. Bible Study 3. The Great Commission 4. Tithing 5. Assembly of Believers into a Local New Testament Church

These I have no problem with, only I would state one thing more:

If you just want to be a Good Christian, you should practice the above 5 things in worship of Almighty God. They are scriptural, Baptist and IFB notwithstanding.

The idea that the KJBO hides its requirement for loyalty with another whole cultural mindset, which glorifies people and not God, to me, and by definition, constitutes a cult.

I may never recover from the damage done in the form of legalism. I ask that you pray for me.

Secondly,

I will try to answer Kathy's inquiry from a personal point of view regarding KJV vs. other translations:

I favor the KJV rendering, but I actually read about 4 translations, and most of the time I read the others more than the KJV.

So, as illogical as that sounds, understand my point is not that of logic, but how I arrive at an amalgamation which I find personally satisfying, and gives me a sense of peace.

My purpose here is not to brag, not at all, I try to cover the whole Bible once every 90 days. I do it not only to worship God, get blessed, get instruction, and have fellowship and be discipled, I also do it to convince myself that there are no principle differences of major doctrines to become a Christian, or even to be a good Christian.

Thus far, I have found the arguments that exist between the two camps to be insignificant, based upon my own observations. Unfortunately, I spent countless years of painstaking study to arrive at this conclusion: There is very little difference. What difference exists, as it goes, is minuscule.

But, at least now, I know for myself.

I also, though not to the degree of Dr. Cassidy and others, studied *some* things about manuscript evidence and textual transmission at Tennessee Temple University and other places.

Yes, I did it because of doubt. I no longer hold these doubts. I am certain that when I open the Bible, I have the English translation of the scriptures inspired by God as descended from the autographs.

(The end of my hopefully helpful answer to Kathy.)

(To the KJBO position

Having had to actually translate multiple computer languages, and human languages, (yes, even Greek a long time ago), I already know that a "word-for-word" translation is a fallacy.

This fallacy is only purported by those, who by stating such a thing, evidence that they have NO experience IN another language besides their native tongue.

There is no shame in this, either.

Just realize that if you purport that the KJV is the only word-for-word translated Word of God, we know what's up with you.

You've read someone else's book.

However, I find that when I cannot speak from a position of absolute knowledge, I am only in possession of my opinion, or someone else's opinion, which I have chosen to adopt.

Many of you are entering this KJV versus other Versions debate for the first time.

You are certain you have the facts well in hand, and can positively decimate the opposition in their ignorance.

After having participated in debates like this at least a dozen times over the years, if not more, I already know that the KJBO argument carries no weight, and is only satisfactory for those willing to do but a cursory study of the facts.

Also, scholarship tends to look down on the KJBO proponent who holds his tenets to be true, and even though the scholar has the facts on his side, he inflames the unlearned, thus alienating him further. Because of this alienation, years must transpire, instead of minutes/hours/days, before the KJBO proponent may at last be free of his yoke of propaganda through personal study and revelation.

The facts are empirical, easily documented, and take a little time to grasp. The only person(s) who will be able to satisfy you with the answers you seek are ultimately God the Holy Spirit, and you, through diligent study.

Understand, study is not constituted of unearned allegiance to a person who sounds confident. Study is exactly what it always has been for an accomplished student.

It's real hard work.

In any other venue, such as an institution or school or seminary, this education I am receiving from bonafide scholars would cost thousands upon thousands of dollars.

I am grateful for the huge wealth of knowledge that I find here from actual documentable evidence.

It would have otherwise cost me a fortune I don't have.

Thank You all,

In His Steps,

Alex Peterson
II Corinthians 10:5

[ September 13, 2001: Message edited by: petersonalexw ]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TomVols:
If you want specifics, I'd be glad to give them to you privately. The types of behaviors and wickedness I witnessed while affiliated with the movement are too insidious to be mentioned publicly on the board.

[ September 12, 2001: Message edited by: TomVols ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tom:

Your email address is blocked. EMail me if you would. I'd like to hear what you are talking about. Thanks.

 

I'm liking the wording skills of petersonalexw. Very well put. Can we keep him?
Sorry, I can't cut and paste, but.....
Quoted by personalexw
"THE IDEA THAT THE KJBO HIDES IT'S REQUIREMENTS FOR LOYALTY WITH ANOTHER CULTURAL MIDSET, WHICH GLORIFIES PEOPLE AND NOT GOD, TO ME, AND BY DEFINITION, CONSTITUTES A CULT."
petersonalexw.......what some IFB hyper fundy's do or did, especially in the situation you're referring to, doesn't make the truth less. The cultural mindset does run deep in the IFB's.....people need to start thinking for themselves....doing some learning INDEPENDANTLY along with their churches....to free this mindset. The problem seems to be, when you tell someone they're allowed to question and learn, they associate you with psychic hotline people! You MUST choose a leader and follow him to all exclusion....
Gina

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Temple:


Tom:

Your email address is blocked. EMail me if you would. I'd like to hear what you are talking about. Thanks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had to block it when we had the trouble with a KJVonly person sending out attack emails some time back. I have emailed you and will respond that way.