Is knowing Jesus as the Son of God a requirement to have eternal life or not?

[zrs6v4]

LOL, I don't really see in scripture that grasping a lot of theology, and achieving a certain level of head knowledge is required to be saved. I do remember reading something to the effect that we must have a childlike faith. :jesus:

I don't think this is a funny discussion, or something to laugh about. Especially when 100's of souls are at hand in reality including my entire family. I do see clear Scripture stating that Jesus is the only way to salvation and only by believing in Him can we be saved. That is 1 requirement of knowledge. Now, then we must ask, how much do we need to know about Jesus in order to know Him.

I will repeat that I do not believe in a degree of head knowledge and then boom we see God, but I do know that in order to have faith that it includes some knowledge. And this thread is about what is that some knowledge that God uses to bring us to Himself. We all "MUST" agree that it is at least Jesus as Savior for our sins.

 

[kyredneck]

Sorry everyone for not being involved in my thread, I just got home from work..



I do not believe our eternal destiny is determined by head knowledge, in fact, that is probably why many people who think they are saved are not saved. I do believe when we have "heart knowledge" that it includes knowledge in our entire being rather than merely intellectual.

I do not know what you mean by correct formula? I don't think that when we are saved that we have to know everything, although from John's Gospel it seems that the object of our faith must be Jesus the Christ, the Son of God.

I do hold that we must have the heart knowledge of the gospel. If we don't, then how do we know who we are believing in? I think that is why John wrote his gospel so we would come to know Jesus, the Son of God.

The question still stands, Can we have saving faith and actually meet Jesus without knowing who He is? Another observation is that in John's Gospel there is a progressive belief that occurs much like the account of Abraham.

Heart knowledge. With that I agree. God removes that old stoney heart and gives us a new one.

 

[zrs6v4]

Heart knowledge. With that I agree. God removes that old stoney heart and gives us a new one.

Agreed.

Whenever you are speaking to an unbeliever, what do you consider sharing the Gospel? What is the preacher of Good news bringing?

If we say Jesus loves you to a man from Kenya who never heard of Jesus, is that the Gospel? What if we then say to the man to pray to Jesus and He will deliver Him from eternal punishment from sin? Will that be enough about Jesus for the man to be saved?

We both know that through our Gospel preaching that God chooses who He will save by working on their hearts and leading them to Christ. The questions above emphasize what about God people must know that the Spirit chooses to move through. Although God's grace is the only hope for them, there is a level of knowledge God requires for someone to be saved.

, Im just throwing out discussion questions.

 

[SRBooe]

An example: there is a "Power Team" bunch that will go to churches for a few days at a time and put on a show of strength - breaking blocks, bending steel, etc - to impress the crowd. All the while they are doing this, they testify and witness to the crowd.

Each night, a few adults "accepted Christ." Each night, dozens of children did - some of them did it more than one night.

Who understood? Who really "accepted" and who merely went with the flow? An external act of acceptance does not always convery what the heart did. How can we really "accept Jesus" when we don't know what "accept" really means? I have understood that a major change takes place inside us when we accept Jesus, and if the change did not take place.......?

 

[Old Union Brother]

You can "accept Christ" all you want to with your head but until you have "heart surgery" you are still lost.

Such things as the "Power Team" scare me. I believe that such displays do nothing but stir up the flesh. I wanted the spirit to be stirred up. Repentance is coming down with a broken heart and a contrite spirit. I had to be broken in spirit and willing for his work to be done rather than mine.

 

[kyredneck]

.....We both know that through our Gospel preaching that God chooses who He will save by working on their hearts and leading them to Christ........

It is Christ who abolished death. The gospel does nor impart life and immortality, it tells of it:

9 who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,
10 but hath now been manifested by the appearing of our Saviour Christ Jesus, who abolished death, and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,
11 whereunto I was appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher. 2 Tim 1

Ye search the scriptures, because ye think that in them ye have eternal life; and these are they which bear witness of me; Jn 5:39

 

[kyredneck]

The only 'accepting' I see in the scriptures is God's acceptance of us; not the other way around.

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. Eph 1

 

[Old Union Brother]

The only 'accepting' I see in the scriptures is God's acceptance of us; not the other way around.

Amen Brother

 

[Steven2006]

I don't think this is a funny discussion, or something to laugh about. .

You need to be able to discern between someone laughing at the topic of discussion (which I didn't do), and my being polite and chuckling with Amy, at her direct response to me.

 

[freeatlast]

Awhile back I did a post searching to know the importance of knowing Jesus as the Son of God and not simply the Savior. I have been taking a course on the Gospel of John through an online college, and this issue has come to me in a knew way, and I would like to re-visit it. My focus is on the point true belief in Jesus in relation to understanding His deity.

In John's Gospel, 20:30-31, he writes his purpose of writing the gospel:
30 Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

Clearly John's purpose is to reveal who Jesus is so people will believe in Him.

John doesn't just write that people should believe in Jesus in a generic way, but rather says, "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God."

I want to make it crystal clear that when Jesus is called Son of God it refers to Him as the eternal God and makes Him equal to God while being the Son in relation to the Godhead. In contrast we see Jesus as the Son of Man, making Him equal with man, and thus being man as well as God in nature. I will repeat this.

In my personal life, I was raised by my mom and saw my dad on the weekends. I went to a Southern Baptist church with my dad on weekends. My moms side of the family have a Jehovah's Witness background, although my mom does not follow them. I say this to bring up the obvious which is that Jehovah's do not believe Jesus is the divine Son of God and for this reason we label them- cult, biblically, and I agree. Now, the Baptist's hold at the top of their confession the trinity, which again is obvious on this forum. As we clearly know by that Doctrine that Jesus is the Son of God and the Son of Man, making Him the God-man who is equal in the Godhead, being fully God, yet a distinctly different person (On this I agree totally).

With that said, I have found that very few people know Jesus as the Son of God before there profession of faith, in fact most say they were saved then learned about His deity later in life (some way later ). I have spoken to many people in Baptist churches that do not have any strong view of Jesus as not only the Savior but also the Son of God (of God, deity, not just of man). My pastor says Jesus is the Son of God and preaches His deity frequently being saved out of the Jehovah's Witness cult himself, and I am thankful he does.

According to John, knowing Jesus is the Son of God (Jesus is God, the Son) is a requirement along with knowing He is the Christ to have eternal life. This is why, I believe, John writes the way he does lifting up the deity of Christ.
I don't mean this is a religious systematic steps of 1, 2, 3's then poof you now have the right to be saved. What I mean is that if one truly comes to see Jesus, it seems that they must see Him as God, the Savior.

In Kay Arthur's study book (The God Who Cares and Knows You) she quotes John 8:24 Jesus says, "Unless you believe that I am...you will die in your sins." Then she writes, "Precious one, if you do not believe that Jesus Christ is God, you will die in your sins."

It's easy for us Baptist's to say that Jehovah's Witnesses are not saved as they reject the person of Jesus as God (among other heretical things). But forget them, what about us?

Questions to discuss:

1. Is meeting Jesus as God and Savior a must in order to know Him as personal Savior? Does John's statement in John 20:30-31 imply a necessity of know Jesus as the Son of God before salvation comes?

2. What about the 6 year old who professes faith in Jesus as Savior, and has never understood that Jesus is God?

3. What about You and Me, our profession? Did we know Jesus as the Son of God at the time we believe we were saved?

4. If we are preaching that Jesus is Savior, and not making it clear that He is Lord, Christ, and God in our Gospel, is it incomplete in the ears of those we are preaching to? What are the implications in preaching to people who, unlike the Jews, do not understand Jesus claims of Himself (Remember John 5, they wanted to kill Jesus for not only healing on a Sabbath but making Himself equal with God...)?

I realize this is not what Baptists like to hear, but I do believe it is what scripture teaches. I think my answer is yes a person has to receive Jesus at least as the Son, but no they do not have to embrace Him as God. In fact even those of us who claim to receive Him as God do not understand how He can be God when He calls the Father My God and your God. So again could a person be saved if they only are turning to God and accepting Jesus as Lord and Saviour, yes because we are not required to be all understanding of the Godhead, only repentant and with faith.
I would say this if a person claims to be saved and after passages like john 1:1,14 are pointed out and a person denies that Jesus is God I would say that they never got saved to begin with.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I realize this is not what Baptists like to hear, but I do believe it is what scripture teaches. I think my answer is yes a person has to receive Jesus at least as the Son, but no they do not have to embrace Him as God. In fact even those of us who claim to receive Him as God do not understand how He can be God when He calls the Father My God and your God. So again could a person be saved if they only are turning to God and accepting Jesus as Lord and Saviour, yes because we are not required to be all understanding of the Godhead, only repentant and with faith.
I would say this if a person claims to be saved and after passages like john 1:1,14 are pointed out and a person denies that Jesus is God I would say that they never got saved to begin with.

Your theology is quite clear.

 

[Amy.G]

I realize this is not what Baptists like to hear, but I do believe it is what scripture teaches. I think my answer is yes a person has to receive Jesus at least as the Son, but no they do not have to embrace Him as God. In fact even those of us who claim to receive Him as God do not understand how He can be God when He calls the Father My God and your God. So again could a person be saved if they only are turning to God and accepting Jesus as Lord and Saviour, yes because we are not required to be all understanding of the Godhead, only repentant and with faith.
I would say this if a person claims to be saved and after passages like john 1:1,14 are pointed out and a person denies that Jesus is God I would say that they never got saved to begin with.

Thank you. When I got saved, I knew about Jesus, but did not understand all the theology. I still don't understand how a man can be God, but I believe it because God's word says it and that settles it.

 

[psalms109:31]

Ye are God's

Psalm 82 (King James Version)

Psalm 82
1God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

2How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

3Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

4Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

7But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

8Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

 

[Iconoclast]

3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=911049452

 

[zrs6v4]

I appreciate everyone's posting.

I want to make it clear that this thread is not about head or heart knowledge (although it applies). It is about the necessity of seeing Jesus for who He is and its relation to our "knowing Him" in our salvation.

I agree that we by no means know all the Christology, big words, or have the Bible figured out when we first believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

I also am aware that we can't fully grasp how Jesus is equal with God (Phil. 2).

The point is that when we come to Christ, how much of Him do we need to know before we can believe?

Obviously the name Jesus is used very widely. If we put the name "Jesus" next to "Savior" we can also come up with thousands of conclusions. It isn't about what we know but rather the God we meet. My issue is, if we meet Jesus, must we find out who He is before we believe (see John 9, healing of the blind man for example)?

Lets revisit John 20:31. Why is it that John said that he wrote about all of Jesus' signs so that we may know He is the Christ, the Son of God, that we may believe and have eternal life? Why did John waste so much time writing about Jesus if we don't need to know anything about Him to be saved?

Lastly, when we say heart knowledge, it includes the entire inner man, including the knowledge in our heads.

 

[zrs6v4]

BTW- I know my title is a bit decieving. I do not want to sound like God requires works or special knowledge to save someone. What I am trying to get across has to do with the truth that God uses to work through.

When speaking of children, I find it very common for parents who sincerely love their children so much that they take matters into their own hands and instead of telling them who Jesus is they tend to forget that and tell them how to use Jesus to avoid hell. As a result, the children grow up under the deception of thinking they are saved and dont know God. I have been seriously thinking about the importance of not neglecting to preach Christ and Him crucified. This includes one of the most essential truths, that He is the Son of God. At this point I can't understand why we wouldn't preach that. I know its a mystery, but that is no reason to neglect to preach it. I am pretty convinced that that is an essential aspect of who Jesus is and how it affects the gospel.

 

[David Lamb]

Psalm 82 (King James Version)

Psalm 82
1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.

3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

It is good to quote God's Word, but it would have been helpful (for me, at least) to be told how this partricular psalm links with the original post.

I notice that you have highlighted verse 6. Are you suggesting that knowing Jesus as the Son of God is not necessary for eternal life because God says to each and every human being: "All of you are children of the most High"? (If that was what you meant, I would have to disagree).

Sorry for my slowness of understanding.

 

[Luke2427]

I, too, "accepted Christ as my Savior" at an early age. Unfortunately, I didn't really know what that meant. I did what my emotions told me to do. I knew I was guilty of something and I didn't want to go to hell.

It took another forty years for me to realize that I needed salvation. Now, I KNOW who Jesus is and what he did for me.

The word "accept" in English does not really convey the idea of salvation.

Absolutely. "Surrender" is a far better word. Even "believe" has become so watered down today that it needs to be clarified.

The idea is to "trust". Trust does not take place without surrender or yielding that which is being entrusted.

If I trust you with my wallet then I have surrendered it into your care.

You now have the power over what happens to it- not me. It is in your power. I have surrendered it to you.

When we trust Christ for salvation we trust him with our lives and all that we are- since that is what is being saved- all of us.

Trusting him with all of us means surrendering to him all of us. There is no salvation apart from surrender.

 

[Old Union Brother]

Absolutely. "Surrender" is a far better word. Even "believe" has become so watered down today that it needs to be clarified.

The idea is to "trust". Trust does not take place without surrender or yielding that which is being entrusted.

If I trust you with my wallet then I have surrendered it into your care.

You now have the power over what happens to it- not me. It is in your power. I have surrendered it to you.

When we trust Christ for salvation we trust him with our lives and all that we are- since that is what is being saved- all of us.

Trusting him with all of us means surrendering to him all of us. There is no salvation apart from surrender.

The word believe, when it comes to salvation is not with the head, it is with the heart. A very hard concept for the carnal mind understand. Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Not to make what Luke said any better, but total surrender to God and laying down pride is a difficult thing to do. When this is accomplished and we totally trust Him to do the work that no man can work, and we confess him as Lord of lords and King of kings salvation is accomplished.

A fellow servant in Christ

Jeff

 

[webdog]

Did the thief on the cross understand Jesus to be the Son of God...or the Messiah? We know the thief knew Jesus was innocent, but based on what he asked Jesus it would seem he understood Jesus to be the understood Messiah (remember me when you come into your kingdom).

Also, did the OT saints understand Jesus to be the Son of God...or the Messiah?