Is man born totally depraved or can they become depraved over time?

[annsni]

Why do you assume he refuses? Maybe his will is provoked and he repents this time?

Praying could make the same difference that Moses' prayer for the Israelites made. God withheld his wrath and was patient with them, showing them mercy.

Yes, sometimes a man refuses, sometimes he doesn't...the point is that it is the person's choice. God has given him all he needs to come, but he must be willing. With us, prayer has the potential to bring change, but in your system it matter's not...it has already been determined.

If God can't override man's will, then praying is of no value. Period.

 

[Skandelon]

If God can't override man's will, then praying is of no value. Period.

Ann, there is a distinction you seem to be missing. There is a significant difference between "overriding man's will" and "influencing" or "provoking" man's will. One is irresistible/effectual and the other is not. Prayer is our effort to influence and provoke, not "override" the will with effectual force. See the difference?

I pray because it MIGHT influence and provoke and thus lead to repentance (Read Romans 11:14). Why do you pray?

 

[Skandelon]

By the way, most of us do acknowledge that God has and does "override" men's wills at times throughout human history in order to accomplish a sovereign purpose. The Damascus Road is one example. We are not arguing God cannot intervene to effectually influence change, we are only arguing that God prefers a faith response. You could say that Jesus effectually brought Thomas to believe that He was raised from the dead by showing him His scars, but its obvious from this encounter that God was not going to do this for everyone..."blessed are those who don't see and still believe." In other words, we believe these divine interventions are just that...; not doctrinal treaties on how God saves everyone throughout the course of human history.