standingfirminChrist
New Member
Only God is omnipresent. Don't put Mary on a pedistal equal with God like the catholics try to do.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Is Mary Omini-present ?
- Thread starter Eliyahu
- Start date
Maybe you will listen to Martin Luther...
The theory of the immortality of the soul was one of those false doctrines that Rome, borrowing from paganism, incorporated into the religion of Christendom. Martin Luther classed it with the "monstrous fables that form part of the Roman dunghill of decretals."--E. Petavel, The Problem of Immortality, page 255. Commenting on the words of Solomon in Ecclesiastes, that the dead know not anything, the Reformer says: "Another place proving that the dead have no . . . feeling. There is, saith he, no duty, no science, no knowledge, no wisdom there. Solomon judgeth that the dead are asleep, and feel nothing at all. For the dead lie there, accounting neither days nor years, but when they are awaked, they shall seem to have slept scarce one minute."-- Martin Luther, Exposition of Solomon's Booke Called Ecclesiastes, page 152.
The theory of the immortality of the soul was one of those false doctrines that Rome, borrowing from paganism, incorporated into the religion of Christendom. Martin Luther classed it with the "monstrous fables that form part of the Roman dunghill of decretals."--E. Petavel, The Problem of Immortality, page 255. Commenting on the words of Solomon in Ecclesiastes, that the dead know not anything, the Reformer says: "Another place proving that the dead have no . . . feeling. There is, saith he, no duty, no science, no knowledge, no wisdom there. Solomon judgeth that the dead are asleep, and feel nothing at all. For the dead lie there, accounting neither days nor years, but when they are awaked, they shall seem to have slept scarce one minute."-- Martin Luther, Exposition of Solomon's Booke Called Ecclesiastes, page 152.
No, the Bible over and over again teaches the word "death" is synonymous with the word "sleep"Originally posted by Claudia_T:
The Bible over and over again teaches that death is a sleep.
"For this cause many of you sleep." 1Cor.11:30
For this cause many of you are dead.
It speaks of physical death. It is not speaking of "soul sleep," a heretical doctrine, and unsupportable by Scripture.
There were some that were "weak, and sickly, and some of them slept, (ie. were dead). All three words refer to the physical body, not the soul.
DHK
standingfirminChrist
New Member
This verse should emphatically prove that there is no such thing as 'soul sleep'....
1 Kings 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.
The child's soul came into him again. It was not sleeping in the body.
1 Kings 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.
The child's soul came into him again. It was not sleeping in the body.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Soul sleep is proven to be false doctrine by the following Scripture:
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Philippians 1:21-26
21.For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
22. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
23. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
24. Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.
25. And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith;
26. That your rejoicing may be more abundant in Jesus Christ for me by my coming to you again.
Read the above again Kamoroso and Claudia. Paul states that when he dies he will be with Jesus Christ. Now unless you can show that Jesus Christ, God the Son, is dead or prove that Paul is a liar then the concept of soul sleep is a false doctrine out of the pit of hell.
Then from the Old Testament we read:
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Also Kamoroso, you have no idea what I have been taught, other than that I have not been taught the heresy of soul-sleep.
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Philippians 1:21-26
21.For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
22. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
23. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
24. Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.
25. And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith;
26. That your rejoicing may be more abundant in Jesus Christ for me by my coming to you again.
Read the above again Kamoroso and Claudia. Paul states that when he dies he will be with Jesus Christ. Now unless you can show that Jesus Christ, God the Son, is dead or prove that Paul is a liar then the concept of soul sleep is a false doctrine out of the pit of hell.
Then from the Old Testament we read:
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Also Kamoroso, you have no idea what I have been taught, other than that I have not been taught the heresy of soul-sleep.
Your right, there is no soul sleep. When the breath, or spirit of God is separated from the body, there is no soul.
Gen 2:7 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The word breath above can also be translated as spirit. It was not until this breath, or spirit from God was united to the body of man, that man became a living soul. When you separate the two, you no longer have a living soul. You are dead, which the bible refers to as asleep.
Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith
Gen 2:7 7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The word breath above can also be translated as spirit. It was not until this breath, or spirit from God was united to the body of man, that man became a living soul. When you separate the two, you no longer have a living soul. You are dead, which the bible refers to as asleep.
Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I would be careful in condemning anyone as Heretic or Heresy just because of one small issue like Soul Sleep.
We notice so many verses mention the souls are sleeping. I understand the other argument, but in such case I would reserve the discernment. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Is there a difference between the soul sleep of the SDA and the non-existence of the soul of the Jehovah's Witnesses?
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Kamoroso,
The soul has to go somewhere. The account of the boy dying in 1 Kings 17 shows us this:
The soul leaves the body at the time of death.
The soul has to go somewhere. The account of the boy dying in 1 Kings 17 shows us this:
If there is such a thing as soul sleep, where is it sleeping? Definitely not in the body, nor the grave.
The soul leaves the body at the time of death.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
So what is the difference?
1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
So now you have finally come to the position where you have finally differentiated between the soul and the spirit. Yes, it is the spirit that will live on for all eternity--either in Hell or in Heaven. The soul is simply the seat of our affections, the mind, the heart out of which comes adulteries, fornications, murder and all kinds of wickedness. It is the spirit that communicates with God, and eventually will return to God. Animals were given a soul, but not a spirit. Man was made in the image of God. He was given a spirit. He, like the angels, is a spirit-being, but clothed in an earthly tabernacle. Some day he will be clothed in an celestial tabernacle.
The spirit never ceases to live. It lives on forever--whether in Hell or in heaven. It is indestructable.
DHK
One thing which we better not forget is that Souls are praising God, giving thanks to God, remembering what Jesus has done for us too. Therefore, as long as Souls obey the spirit, they become the right tools for our being, even though souls are often used to commit sins.
Returning to OP, we should remember that the believers sleep, and they may be waken up. But we have no clue that one should pray to the dead believers at all. Sometimes RC claim that the souls under altar crying aloud ( Rev 6:9-11). We don't know the time of such crying. It can be the collection of all the cries of the martyrs when they were killed. The passage doesn't give us the clue that we should pray to the dead or for the dead.
Returning to OP, we should remember that the believers sleep, and they may be waken up. But we have no clue that one should pray to the dead believers at all. Sometimes RC claim that the souls under altar crying aloud ( Rev 6:9-11). We don't know the time of such crying. It can be the collection of all the cries of the martyrs when they were killed. The passage doesn't give us the clue that we should pray to the dead or for the dead.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
I tend to believe that the souls under the altar are martyrs who have died for their faith up all the way from Abel up to the time of the rapture
2 Tim 4:6-8 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
It is clear from the above scriptures, that the apostle Paul believed that he would receive his reward from Christ, at the same time as the rest of those who love Christ’s appearing will. Added to this, is the fact that the apostle is here talking about his imminent death. In other scriptures we find conclusive statements from Paul regarding those who are dead, what their condition in death is, and when they will receive eternal life, that is, immortality.
1 Cor 15:12-26 & 51-55 12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Paul refers to the dead as sleeping several times. Why would anyone that believed the dead go to be either with Christ in heaven, or into a burning hell when they die, refer to those who do so as if they were asleep? Nothing could be further from the truth for either one. Are you saying that those who go to heaven to be with God at death will be so bored that they will be referred to as sleeping? That’s nonsense. No really, that makes no sense. On the other hand, could those who are supposedly burning in hell be so relaxed that they could be referred to as sleeping? That’s nonsense. No really, that makes no sense at all.
Paul specifically states in verse 18,that if Christ were not raised from the dead, then all those who sleep in Christ, or are dead having believed in Him, are perished. If you perish, you do not exist in any way, shape, or form. The bible is filled with scriptures that refer to the unsaved dead as perished.
In verse 20, Paul states that Christ is the first fruits of them that slept, or were dead. In verses 22&23, he says that these people will be made alive at Christ’s coming. This is when they receive life again, not immediately at death. Adam brought death, Christ brings life, these things are opposites. God told Adam and Eve that they would die if they ate from the tree of good and evil. Satan is the one who told them they would not. Thus he is a liar, and the father of it. Verse 26 states that the last enemy to be destroyed is death. This will happen in the last day when all Christ’s receive immortal life. Let us examine some more.
1 Cor 15:51-55 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
Could Paul possibly be more specific? It is at the last trump, when the dead are raised, that we mortals put on immortality. This is when death is swallowed up in victory.
1Thes 4:13-18 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Again the order is laid out plainly. Those who are dead are referred to as asleep because they were mortal, they died, and they need to be resurrected. When they are resurrected, they will receive immortality, and never die again.
2 Tim 1:10 10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
Christ has abolished death, he has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. This immortal life is clearly taught by the apostle Paul to begin at the resurrection of the dead in Christ. You take a statement made by Paul about being with Christ when he departs those with whom he was speaking, and make it trash everything he clearly taught above. This is not rightly dividing the word of God. Observe the following written by Peter.
2 Pet 3:15-16 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
We are admonished to be careful with the writings of the apostle Paul. If you believe that he said something that contradicts a great many scriptures, including several of his own words, then you are probably misunderstanding something. The following is a list of scripture, excluding those of Paul’s already quoted, that contradict what you are saying Paul’s writings mean.
John 6 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Rom 8:13-14 "13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."
Eccl 9:5-6 5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
Eccl 9:10 10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
1 Tim 6:15-16 "15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."
Ps 115:17 "17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence."
Ps 146:3-4 "3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish."
Ps 13:3 3 Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;
Job 7:21 21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.
Job 14:10-12 10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
Job 19:25-27 25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.
Dan 12:2 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Acts 2:29-36 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Mal 4:1-6 1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
Ezek 28:11-22 11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
I Jn 5:11-12 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
Ps 37:20 20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
Ps 68:1-3 1 Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him.
2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.
3 But let the righteous be glad; let them rejoice before God: yea, let them exceedingly rejoice.
Ps 73:27 27 For, lo, they that are far from thee shall perish: thou hast destroyed all them that go a whoring from thee.
Ps 112:10 10 The wicked shall see it, and be grieved; he shall gnash with his teeth, and melt away: the desire of the wicked shall perish.
Isa 41:11-12 11 Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish.
12 Thou shalt seek them, and shalt not find them, even them that contended with thee: they that war against thee shall be as nothing, and as a thing of nought.
John 3:14-18 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
1 Cor 1:17-18 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
II Th 2:10-12 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2 Pet 2:12 12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
Jude 1:7 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
It is clear from the above scriptures, that the apostle Paul believed that he would receive his reward from Christ, at the same time as the rest of those who love Christ’s appearing will. Added to this, is the fact that the apostle is here talking about his imminent death. In other scriptures we find conclusive statements from Paul regarding those who are dead, what their condition in death is, and when they will receive eternal life, that is, immortality.
1 Cor 15:12-26 & 51-55 12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Paul refers to the dead as sleeping several times. Why would anyone that believed the dead go to be either with Christ in heaven, or into a burning hell when they die, refer to those who do so as if they were asleep? Nothing could be further from the truth for either one. Are you saying that those who go to heaven to be with God at death will be so bored that they will be referred to as sleeping? That’s nonsense. No really, that makes no sense. On the other hand, could those who are supposedly burning in hell be so relaxed that they could be referred to as sleeping? That’s nonsense. No really, that makes no sense at all.
Paul specifically states in verse 18,that if Christ were not raised from the dead, then all those who sleep in Christ, or are dead having believed in Him, are perished. If you perish, you do not exist in any way, shape, or form. The bible is filled with scriptures that refer to the unsaved dead as perished.
In verse 20, Paul states that Christ is the first fruits of them that slept, or were dead. In verses 22&23, he says that these people will be made alive at Christ’s coming. This is when they receive life again, not immediately at death. Adam brought death, Christ brings life, these things are opposites. God told Adam and Eve that they would die if they ate from the tree of good and evil. Satan is the one who told them they would not. Thus he is a liar, and the father of it. Verse 26 states that the last enemy to be destroyed is death. This will happen in the last day when all Christ’s receive immortal life. Let us examine some more.
1 Cor 15:51-55 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
Could Paul possibly be more specific? It is at the last trump, when the dead are raised, that we mortals put on immortality. This is when death is swallowed up in victory.
1Thes 4:13-18 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Again the order is laid out plainly. Those who are dead are referred to as asleep because they were mortal, they died, and they need to be resurrected. When they are resurrected, they will receive immortality, and never die again.
2 Tim 1:10 10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
Christ has abolished death, he has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. This immortal life is clearly taught by the apostle Paul to begin at the resurrection of the dead in Christ. You take a statement made by Paul about being with Christ when he departs those with whom he was speaking, and make it trash everything he clearly taught above. This is not rightly dividing the word of God. Observe the following written by Peter.
2 Pet 3:15-16 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
We are admonished to be careful with the writings of the apostle Paul. If you believe that he said something that contradicts a great many scriptures, including several of his own words, then you are probably misunderstanding something. The following is a list of scripture, excluding those of Paul’s already quoted, that contradict what you are saying Paul’s writings mean.
John 6 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Rom 8:13-14 "13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."
Eccl 9:5-6 5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
Eccl 9:10 10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
1 Tim 6:15-16 "15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."
Ps 115:17 "17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence."
Ps 146:3-4 "3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish."
Ps 13:3 3 Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;
Job 7:21 21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.
Job 14:10-12 10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
Job 19:25-27 25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.
Dan 12:2 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Acts 2:29-36 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Mal 4:1-6 1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
Ezek 28:11-22 11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
I Jn 5:11-12 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
Ps 37:20 20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
Ps 68:1-3 1 Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him.
2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.
3 But let the righteous be glad; let them rejoice before God: yea, let them exceedingly rejoice.
Ps 73:27 27 For, lo, they that are far from thee shall perish: thou hast destroyed all them that go a whoring from thee.
Ps 112:10 10 The wicked shall see it, and be grieved; he shall gnash with his teeth, and melt away: the desire of the wicked shall perish.
Isa 41:11-12 11 Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish.
12 Thou shalt seek them, and shalt not find them, even them that contended with thee: they that war against thee shall be as nothing, and as a thing of nought.
John 3:14-18 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
1 Cor 1:17-18 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
II Th 2:10-12 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2 Pet 2:12 12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
Jude 1:7 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith
05315 vpn nephesh neh'- fesh
from 05314; n f; {See TWOT on 1395 @@ '1395a'}
AV-soul 475, life 117, person 29, mind 15, heart 15, creature 9, body 8, himself 8, yourselves 6, dead 5, will 4, desire 4, man 3, themselves 3, any 3, appetite 2, misc 47; 753
1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
1a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
1b) living being
1c) living being (with life in the blood)
1d) the man himself, self, person or individual
1e) seat of the appetites
1f) seat of emotions and passions
1g) activity of mind
1g1) dubious
1h) activity of the will
1h1) dubious
1i) activity of the character
1i1) dubious
To say that his soul came into him again, is simply to say that life came into him again. He became a living soul. There is no such thing as a dead soul. If you are a soul, then you are alive. This is why we are to fear him who can not only destroy the body, but also the soul.
Matt 10:28 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
The soul of the sinner who does not accept the gift of God can and will be destroyed.
Ezek 18:20 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith
05315 vpn nephesh neh'- fesh
from 05314; n f; {See TWOT on 1395 @@ '1395a'}
AV-soul 475, life 117, person 29, mind 15, heart 15, creature 9, body 8, himself 8, yourselves 6, dead 5, will 4, desire 4, man 3, themselves 3, any 3, appetite 2, misc 47; 753
1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
1a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
1b) living being
1c) living being (with life in the blood)
1d) the man himself, self, person or individual
1e) seat of the appetites
1f) seat of emotions and passions
1g) activity of mind
1g1) dubious
1h) activity of the will
1h1) dubious
1i) activity of the character
1i1) dubious
07307 xwr ruwach roo'- akh
from 07306; n f; {See TWOT on 2131 @@ '2131a'}
AV-Spirit or spirit 232, wind 92, breath 27, side 6, mind 5, blast 4, vain 2, air 1, anger 1, cool 1, courage 1, misc 6; 378
1) wind, breath, mind, spirit
1a) breath
1b) wind
1b1) of heaven
1b2) quarter (of wind), side
1b3) breath of air
1b4) air, gas
1b5) vain, empty thing
1c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
1c1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
1c2) courage
1c3) temper, anger
1c4) impatience, patience
1c5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
1c6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
1c7) prophetic spirit
1d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
1d1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
1e) spirit (as seat of emotion)
1e1) desire
1e2) sorrow, trouble
1f) spirit
1f1) as seat or organ of mental acts
1f2) rarely of the will
1f3) as seat especially of moral character
1g) Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
1g1) as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy
1g2) as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning
1g3) imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power
1g4) as endowing men with various gifts
1g5) as energy of life
1g6) as manifest in the Shekinah glory
1g7) never referred to as a depersonalised force
Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith
1 Tim 6:16 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
The Spirit of God is immortal and indestructible, not the spirit of man apart from God. You have made this up, it is not scriptural. You make sinners Gods by giving them the attribute that belongs to God alone, and whom ever He wills to have it. Satan desires it, for he desires to be God. He also promises it to all of his followers. He is the Father of this lie, that apart from God Ye shall not surely die. You brother, are promoting this lie by your false teaching.
2 Pet 2:12 12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
I do not wish to offend, but only to speak the truth.
Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith
Do you really belive all those souls are stuffed under some alter in heaven crying out for vengence?
Gen 4:9-10 9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
Do you believe that the blood of Abel literally cried out to God from the ground? No, but the deed committed by Cain demanded God's attention. So to, the souls crying out to God from under the alter is not literal, but the murder of the martyrs demands God's attention, and will receive it.
Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith