Bro. Ruben
New Member
Double posting, sorry!
Mods, kindly delete this one please.
Thanks.
Mods, kindly delete this one please.
Thanks.
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Is Matthew 19 speaks of having eternal life via good works?
- Thread starter Bro. Ruben
- Start date
1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
Heb. 4:4. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5. and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6. and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
7. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
8. but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned. (NASB, 1995)
God saves the "Soul", not the "flesh", in rebellion, it is turned over to satan much quicker than it normally would be, (old age) but evenually, Satan gets "All flesh". (dust)
Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
Ge 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent,
dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Flesh is Satan's "Bread of life" in the same sense Jesus's "Body" is our "Bread of life".
Bro. Ruben,
The verses in Hebrews are speaking of Christians that have received the Word of the Kingdom, meaning that Christians will rule and reign with Christ in the 1,000-year Millenial Kingdom, but for whatever reason they have fallen away. Once that happens there is no repentence for them.
Our inheritance is to rule and reign with Christ for 1,000 years and after that we enter into eternity. But just like Esau we are able to forfeit our inheritance. Esau saw little value in his inheritance so he sold it for a single meal.
Once he found out how valuable that inheritance was he changed his mind and tried to get his father to change his mind and bless him also, but it did not happen.
You can also see this picture in the children in the wildneress. They believed the 10 spies that said we can't conquer the land instead of the two spies who said we can.
They realized their mistake and tried to enter the land but were turned back and were destroyed in the wildnerness instead of obtaining the promised land.
Hope that helps.
The verses in Hebrews are speaking of Christians that have received the Word of the Kingdom, meaning that Christians will rule and reign with Christ in the 1,000-year Millenial Kingdom, but for whatever reason they have fallen away. Once that happens there is no repentence for them.
Our inheritance is to rule and reign with Christ for 1,000 years and after that we enter into eternity. But just like Esau we are able to forfeit our inheritance. Esau saw little value in his inheritance so he sold it for a single meal.
Once he found out how valuable that inheritance was he changed his mind and tried to get his father to change his mind and bless him also, but it did not happen.
You can also see this picture in the children in the wildneress. They believed the 10 spies that said we can't conquer the land instead of the two spies who said we can.
They realized their mistake and tried to enter the land but were turned back and were destroyed in the wildnerness instead of obtaining the promised land.
Hope that helps.
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
Bro. Ruben wrote,
Hebrews 6:6. and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. (NASB, 1995)
Yes, death means separation from God, and Hebrews 6:6 expressly says that those Christians who “have fallen away” cannot be renewed again to repentance. Those Christians who have fallen away are most certainly separated from God and thus so very dead that it is “impossible to renew them again to repentance.”
Hebrews 6:6. and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. (NASB, 1995)
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
Absolute nonsense! There is nothing in the Epistle to the Hebrews that even remotely suggests that the concept of a future millennial kingdom was even known to the author, and most certainly a future millennial kingdom is NOT in view in this passage.
Calvibaptist
New Member
Yes.
Matthew 3:1-2 In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea, 2 and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!"
Mark 1:14-15 Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."
And please don't make a false-dichotomy between the "kingdom of God" and salvation. Repent and believe in the gospel is a salvation message. It also involves the kingdom of God. You really need to read some Progressive Dispensationalists rather than sticking with the old Charles Ryrie brand. Better yet, read the Gospels. Hmmm, why do they call them gospels?
Calvibaptist
New Member
Originally posted by Me4Him:
[QB]So if Jesus sat on the throne, which he did according to verse 21 here, then what is he doing if not reigning? Is he just resting while he intercedes? Of course it is the Father's throne. The Father has given Jesus the right to rule. Therefore, He is sitting on the Father's throne.
Where does the Bible ever say that Jesus sits on something called "My Throne" as opposed to the "His Throne" of the Father? Sound to me like you didn't really comprehend what you read in Rev. 3:21.I know one thing, "reading comprehension" definitely isn't a "Strong point" among "Calvinist".
Re 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him (God) that sat on the throne a book
Re 5:7 And he (Jesus) came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
Mt 22:44 The LORD (God)said unto my Lord, (Jesus) Sit thou on my right hand,
Heb 8:1 We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
The "Father" sits on "His Throne".
Jesus sits on "My Throne".
Are you having trouble with the "trinity"??{/Quote}
No, not at all.
These verses prove nothing about Jesus' current role. The only proof they offer is that we won't rule on thrones until the millenial kingdom.
Strangely enough, I agree with a lot of this statement.
So, you dont need a teacher at all?
Ephesians 4:11-12 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
Absolute nonsense! There is nothing in the Epistle to the Hebrews that even remotely suggests that the concept of a future millennial kingdom was even known to the author.
Hope of Glory
New Member
Amen, brother! We've been studying this at church for quite some time now. Very little in the Bible is written to lost people; almost all of it is written to the saved and it exhorts them to live a better life here so that they may be able to rule and to reign.
To say that all believers will rule and reign in the coming Kingdom is absurd! There will be many who will serve then, because they choose not to serve now.
Yep! So many people mistakenly portray Esau as a type of a lost person, when in fact, this is dealing with inheritance. They are both in the family, but Esau gave up the better inheritance to satisfy his flesh. Most people forget (or choose to ignore) that he still had an inheritance, just not the better inheritance.
Absolute nonsense! There is nothing in the Epistle to the Hebrews that even remotely suggests that the concept of a future millennial kingdom was even known to the author, and most certainly a future millennial kingdom is NOT in view in this passage.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
Do you know that the same pattern of days described for the world "Beginning", is the same pattern described for it's "END"??? (each day=1000 years)
The Bible contains a "Schedule" in which events will occur, and so far, it's 100% accurate.
BTW, we're at the end of the six days,
"R.U. Rapture Ready"????
Calvibaptist,
I would encourage you to reconsider whether or not the Jews were still dead in trespasses and sins. I would suggest that they were not. The offer of the Kingdom of God, or the Kingdom of the Heavens (look it's actually plural in the original language) was the heavenly sphere of the earthly kingdom of which the physical part had already been promised.
These folks would have been in no way able to even entertain the offer unless they were alive spiritually. For a spiritually dead person can not understand spiritual matters.
The offer of salvation by grace through faith was unneeded, because these folks had already shown their faith in believing what God said about the sacrifices pointing to the Ultimate Sacrifice Jesus Christ. He didn't come to these folks as Savior, He came to them as Messiah/King/Annointed One.
The didn't reject a Savior they rejected a King.
By the way I've never read any of Ryrie's material
And as the gospel goes it just means good news. The good news for the Jews was that their King was in their midst and He was ready to establish His Kingdom right then if the nation would repent and believe on Him as King not as Savior. Their sins had already been dealt with as far as that was concerned.
I would encourage you to reconsider whether or not the Jews were still dead in trespasses and sins. I would suggest that they were not. The offer of the Kingdom of God, or the Kingdom of the Heavens (look it's actually plural in the original language) was the heavenly sphere of the earthly kingdom of which the physical part had already been promised.
These folks would have been in no way able to even entertain the offer unless they were alive spiritually. For a spiritually dead person can not understand spiritual matters.
The offer of salvation by grace through faith was unneeded, because these folks had already shown their faith in believing what God said about the sacrifices pointing to the Ultimate Sacrifice Jesus Christ. He didn't come to these folks as Savior, He came to them as Messiah/King/Annointed One.
The didn't reject a Savior they rejected a King.
By the way I've never read any of Ryrie's material
And as the gospel goes it just means good news. The good news for the Jews was that their King was in their midst and He was ready to establish His Kingdom right then if the nation would repent and believe on Him as King not as Savior. Their sins had already been dealt with as far as that was concerned.
I forgot to add this about the good news. The Gentiles are today being offered what the Jews rejected. They rejected a actual Kingdom (1,000-year Kingdom and its King).
But in order for a Gentile to entertain that offer they must be made alive, because they are dead in their trespasses and sins. This is the good news to the Gentiles. But once a person has become alive spiritually there is a second bit of good news and that is the fact that each Christian can become a firstborn son and can become a part of the bride of Christ. And only spiritually alive folks can determine whether or not they want to believe that. If they do believe that then they must repent of their sins and allow the Holy Spirit to discipline them as necessary and have Jesus, Who is acting as High Priest continue to cleanse them from time to time as the Holy Spirit reveals sin (God is a refiner's fire and a fuller's soap). You can see this picture in the washing of Peter's feet.
But in order for a Gentile to entertain that offer they must be made alive, because they are dead in their trespasses and sins. This is the good news to the Gentiles. But once a person has become alive spiritually there is a second bit of good news and that is the fact that each Christian can become a firstborn son and can become a part of the bride of Christ. And only spiritually alive folks can determine whether or not they want to believe that. If they do believe that then they must repent of their sins and allow the Holy Spirit to discipline them as necessary and have Jesus, Who is acting as High Priest continue to cleanse them from time to time as the Holy Spirit reveals sin (God is a refiner's fire and a fuller's soap). You can see this picture in the washing of Peter's feet.
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
J. Jump wrote,
Nowhere, absolutely nowhere in the Bible do we find such doctrines!
Let's discuss what the Bible says rather than some science fiction writer!
Nowhere, absolutely nowhere in the Bible do we find such doctrines!
The "Trinity" explains the scripture, You have to separate them into "Father-Son" to understand the scripture, even though they are "ONE".
In Heaven, the "Father" sits on the throne
On earth, Jesus sits on "HIS Throne",
At the GWT, it's Jesus sitting on the throne because it's "on earth" and all Judgment is committed to Jesus, the Son, not the Father.
Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
No unsaved person will ever see the fully glory of God the Father, at judgment, they'll only see Jesus.
Mt 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they (only) shall see God. (in his full glory)
Jesus's "transfiguration" will be into the fully glory of God, "AFTER" the Judgement.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Joh 16:25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. (Jesus Transfigured)
I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
Yep, you're having trouble with the "Trinity" explaining the scriptures.
Does God "Air mail" these a "Degree" to "hang on the wall"???
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
If what you have laid out is in the Bible, why can't any scholars of the Bible find it there?
Here is a very basic timeline that I put together several weeks ago if anyone is interested: http://www.1-heart.org/timeline.gif
Craigbythesea
Well-Known Member
Many Bible scholars have devoted a large portion of their lives studying what the Bible teaches about the kingdom of God, and have written extensively on the subject. And since this is a very important subject in the Bible, I have had the occasion to study the subject a little myself, and I could post a substantial bibliography of those whose interpretation is vastly different than yours, but I am aware of only a few of them (Robert Govett, for example) that share your view, and none of them were men of stature in the academic world of Biblical studies. If I have missed anyone, please don’t leave me in the dark.
Question: Are you possibly a member of the pseudo-Christian cult that Joey Faust belongs to?