Is not Molinism...

[Benjamin]

I agree with you (and Keathley) about "determininsm", however, the christian theist can and should argue that this determininsm originates with God, whereas the atheist/agnostic will claim that this determinism is a necessary property of a deterministic and completely natural universe.

I would say the atheist, although not believing in God, will argue from a view of “if” there is a God He is a deterministic and despot god who brings evil into the world. They will often then fall back on P.O.E. (Problem of Evil) arguments about divine exist either being of evil or not omnipotent. A very similar argument to the Christian one except the atheist does wish the theology to become fatalistic.

For me, and a good deal of natural scientists, the determinism of Descartes died in the 20th century with the advent of quantum physics and mechanics

Whoo! Pretty much lost me on that one...

 

[quantumfaith]

I would say the atheist, although not believing in God, will argue from a view of “if” there is a God He is a deterministic and despot god who brings evil into the world. They will often then fall back on P.O.E. (Problem of Evil) arguments about divine exist either being of evil or not omnipotent. A very similar argument to the Christian one except the atheist does wish the theology to become fatalistic.

Whoo! Pretty much lost me on that one...

Benjamin,

Most scientists (physicists, matematicians etc.) prior to the 20th century held that the Universe was completely deterministic (and in most cases naturalistic). Many viewed the universe as static rather than dynamic. In the late 19th century and early in the 20th century as we began to unlock and understand the world of the infinitessimal, we quickly came to the realization that our mathematics and Newtonian physics could not "model" the very small (and very large) correctly. Out of this was born "quantum physics and mechanics" which in actuality has a probabilistic and stochastic basis. Many "strived" against such a notion, even Einstein himself. Now, quantum mathematics has 60-70 years yielding predicable mathematical models. Now, philosophers and theologians are tackling the challenge in explaining the impact on philopsophy and theology. An exciting time for those willing to think....