Is Physical Death A Form Of God's Chastisement?

[jne1611]

Ok, lets just say they are little sins, any sin you want to call it. Does this chastisement cleanse it.

I don't believe this chastisement to be of a redemptive nature. That may not be what you mean. But I believe that this person will no doubt suffer lose for his forfeited life at the JSOC. You could say it cleansed it, but it would depend on the context you put that in. I would say his wrong has been corrected, never again to be committed.

To make myself clear, I do not believe this to be a man who got saved & then started living for the Devil & never lived for God one day. Just like the Corinthians, they started out on fire for God, and got into sin & some were left as living examples of God's Judgment, and some died. God must determine this. Paul exhorted them to judge them selves and so escape the Judgment of God in their lives.

 

[Brother Bob]

I don't believe this chastisement to be of a redemptive nature. That may not be what you mean. But I believe that this person will no doubt suffer lose for his forfeited life at the JSOC. You could say it cleansed it, but it would depend on the context you put that in. I would say his wrong has been corrected, never again to be committed.

Jhn 8:21¶Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come

What about this scripture?

or this:

Luk 13:3I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

 

[jne1611]

Jhn 8:21¶Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come

What about this scripture?

or this:

Luk 13:3I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

I have no problem with it. But, in the context, Christ is not talking to the saved. He is talking to unbelievers. He later told them why he said this. Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

And the same application goes to Luke 13:3. This is not to saved people.

The context of the Corinthian letter in the cited text of the OP cannot be mistaken. That text is to believers about chastisement, and God had killed some of them as a means of correction.

I have to go to bed, I have to be at work at 5:50 AM. So i will catch up tomorrow. Please don't lose the thought. Night.

 

[Brother Bob]

I have no problem with it. But, in the context, Christ is not talking to the saved. He is talking to unbelievers. He later told them why he said this. Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Are you saying that the world dies in sin they are lost, but the saved can die in sin?

This scripture don't count then does it?

Isa 1:18¶Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Psa 51:2Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.

 

[jne1611]

Are you saying that the world dies in sin they are lost, but the saved can die in sin?

Bro. Bob, the world is a totally different context than the saved. If we take the Scriptures true, we are completely forgiven in Christ, yet we still sin. Every one of us will die tainted by the flesh. But, some have given in to it that have been taken out of this world for God's own reasons. I believe all our sins are forgiven us for the sake of the blood of Christ. If not, we have no hope, but, we can fall, and God can take us out of this life.

Again, I have no problem with the text you supplied. But, you are not trying to be saved right now are you? A mean, do you believe you are completely forgiven as far as redemption from all sin is concerned?


I really have to go to bed, but, leave me an answer to this. Are you completely sure that when you die, you will have no, absolutely no sin in your life at all?

 

[Brother Bob]

Bro. Bob, the world is a totally different context than the saved. If we take the Scriptures true, we are completely forgiven in Christ, yet we still sin. Every one of us will die tainted by the flesh. But, some have given in to it that have been taken out of this world for God's own reasons. I believe all our sins are forgiven us for the sake of the blood of Christ. If not, we have no hope, but, we can fall, and God can take us out of this life.

Again, I have no problem with the text you supplied. But, you are not trying to be saved right now are you? A mean, do you believe you are completely forgiven as far as redemption from all sin is concerned?

If that is true, then why this thread, why the chastisement, why the advocate with God. Are you saying if we become Christians and taken out of the world, then we can sin?

1. If the world sins, are they lost?


2. If a Christian sins, are they lost?

but, we can fall, and God can take us out of this life.

Fall from what?

 

[Brother Bob]

I hope you don't mind me asking these serious scripture questions?

 

[jne1611]

If that is true, then why this thread, why the chastisement, why the advocate with God. Are you saying if we become Christians and taken out of the world, then we can sin?

No problem at all! Bro. Bob, I love your questions. They are open and honest! I am saying we do sin. Bottom line. Anyone who says he does not is a liar. This thread has been started based on a contextual exposition of verses that make it crystal clear that physical death is defined by the Apostle Paul as chastisement. That is why I started the thread. I do not advocate sinning, but we do sin. And if one gives in to any sin according to what John said, he risks God's Judgment even to death. For all unrighteousness is sin from the top to the bottom.

 

[jne1611]

Bro. Bob & All

I will catch you guys and gals tomorrow! Good Night! Thanks for sharing thoughts and questions!

 

[Brother Bob]

JNE; No problem at all! Bro. Bob, I love your questions. They are open and honest! I am saying we do sin. Bottom line. Anyone who says he does not is a liar. This thread has been started based on a contextual exposition of verses that make it crystal clear that physical death is defined by the Apostle Paul as chastisement. That is why I started the thread. I do not advocate sinning, but we do sin. And if one gives in to any sin according to what John said, he risks God's Judgment even to death. For all unrighteousness is sin from the top to the bottom.

You still did not answer my question.
1. How come the world can't sin, but Christians can. I find no where in scripture that the word teaches to become a Christian so you can sin.

2. Does this early death of chastisement pay for the sin that brought on the early death?

3. You and others keep saying over and over that Christians sin, and everyone of you use 1John 2:4

Don't you think if you are going to use the scripture of "hath no sin" for the Christian is a liar,

1Jo 2:4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

don't you think you should have to give an answer for, 1John 3:9?

1Jo 3:9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Being both scriptures were given by John and very close together in scripture?

 

[TCGreek]

1 Cor.11:29-32 is an example where physical death was a disciplinary action of God. And who can forget Ananias and his wife? (Acts 5)

 

[npetreley]

1 Cor.11:29-32 is an example where physical death was a disciplinary action of God. And who can forget Ananias and his wife (Acts 5).

So were these people saved? If they were, what was the point of killing them if they're going to suffer for 1,000 years in hell for their sin anyway?

 

[Brother Bob]

I personally think Anaias and his wife were lost.

1 Cor. 11:29 you have a good question. Did it pay for the sin, what ever it was. If it were unchristians following them for food, then that would be a different thing.

 

[TCGreek]

So were these people saved? If they were, what was the point of killing them if they're going to suffer for 1,000 years in hell for their sin anyway?

Good question, I say.

 

[TCGreek]

I personally think Anaias and his wife were lost.

1. The destiny of Ananias and his wife I cannot adjudicate.

1 Cor. 11:29 you have a good question. Did it pay for the sin, what ever it was. If it were unchristians following them for food, then that would be a different thing.

2. I see no reasons why these cannot be Christians. Why would God take the life of non-believers to admonish his children? Christians can always conclude that it was because they were not Christians that is why they were taken by God.

 

[Brother Bob]

2. I see no reasons why these cannot be Christians. Why would God take the life of non-believers to admonish his children? Christians can always conclude that it was because they were not Christians that is why they were taken by God.__________________

Well, if the world partake of something as Holy as the sacrament, after it had been blessed to be the blood and body of Christ, he might take them out.

 

[Amy.G]

I know that scripture says the Ananias and Sapphira lied to the Holy Spirit, but what does that mean? How do you lie to the Holy Spirit? I'm sure we've all said we were going to do something for God, but then didn't.

 

[npetreley]

2. I see no reasons why these cannot be Christians. Why would God take the life of non-believers to admonish his children? Christians can always conclude that it was because they were not Christians that is why they were taken by God.

I think the context demands that the Corinthians who were sick and falling asleep were Christians. Even without the context, I'm not aware of any scripture where the expression "fall asleep" is used for anyone but Christians.

 

[npetreley]

I know that scripture says the Ananias and Sappira lied to the Holy Spirit, but what does that mean? How do you lie to the Holy Spirit? I'm sure we've all said we were going to do something for God, but then didn't.

They deliberately misrepresented how much money they got for selling their land. It wasn't a mistake but a calculated lie so they could look good while pocketing the difference. The fact that it was a lie to the Holy Spirit implies they had the Holy Spirit within them, but that's not necessarily true.

 

[TCGreek]

Well, if the world partake of something as Holy as the sacrament, after it had been blessed to be the blood and body of Christ, he might take them out.

Still, you have not given any reason why these were non-Christians.