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Is Prayer Necessary for Salvation?
- Thread starter Kathryn
- Start date
And my God will supply all your needs according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus. Philippians 4:19
Faith, hope, and Charity are all gifts supplied by God. Faith doesn't come from me. You say faith is a requirement for salvation and is not a gift from God. I am saved by Grace though faith as the Gospel of Jesus Christ teaches.
Faith, hope, and Charity are all gifts supplied by God. Faith doesn't come from me. You say faith is a requirement for salvation and is not a gift from God. I am saved by Grace though faith as the Gospel of Jesus Christ teaches.
D
dianetavegia
Guest
Mark 9:23 Jesus said to him, "If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes." 24 Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, "Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!" (Increase my faith!)
Ro 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. (God gives faith)
2Co 10:15 Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
AFTER WE ARE SAVED... The fruit of the Spirit is Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness and Self-Control.
Lord, increase MY faith!
Diane
Ro 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. (God gives faith)
2Co 10:15 Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
AFTER WE ARE SAVED... The fruit of the Spirit is Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness and Self-Control.
Lord, increase MY faith!
Diane
Diane:
I agree, with the above Scripture that God gives us the gift of faith, and increases it, if we ask. Faith comes from God not us. It comes from hearing the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We have to ask, that is a most important teaching of the Gospel. "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened." Matt 7:7-8
"Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with me. " Rev 2:20.
This is why prayer is a basic necessity of Salvation by Grace through faith. The thief on the cross prayed to Jesus, admitted he was a sinner and asked to be remembered in Jesus' kingdom.
There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism.
[ March 22, 2004, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: Kathryn ]
I agree, with the above Scripture that God gives us the gift of faith, and increases it, if we ask. Faith comes from God not us. It comes from hearing the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We have to ask, that is a most important teaching of the Gospel. "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened." Matt 7:7-8
"Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with me. " Rev 2:20.
This is why prayer is a basic necessity of Salvation by Grace through faith. The thief on the cross prayed to Jesus, admitted he was a sinner and asked to be remembered in Jesus' kingdom.
There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism.
[ March 22, 2004, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: Kathryn ]
D
dianetavegia
Guest
I believe prayer is necessary for salvation because prayer is communication with God and for us to repent and confess our sins, we must talk to God in our own way. Feeling guilty is not enough!
We could list all the miracles of Christ that are in scripture (we know there were too many for the disciples to list them all) and we'd see that people ASKED for healing, ASKED for forgiveness, ASKED for understanding, wisdom, guidance, God's presence..., etc.
Also, EVERY promise God gives us begins with an IF and has a THEN.... If my people... then I will heal their land...
Diane
No one here disputes that.
Those verses are not dealing with personal conversion but is teaching on how to pray but not how to be saved
That verse is Christ calling the Church of Laodecia to repentance and has nothing to do with how to be saved.
No it is not. We repent of our sins by having a change of mind and by turning from them. Prayer may indeed be the fruit of it but is not the cause. To say Prayer is a requirement for salvation is to add to the plan of salvation. Show me one place in the book of Acts where anyone prayed for Salvation.
My Calvinist theology does not always agree with the late Dr. John R. Rice's watered down Arminianisn but Dr. Rice addressed this very subject and I believed stated it very correctly,
Kiffin:
An example of prayer being necessary for salvation is the thief on the cross. He prayed directly to Jesus, confessed he was a sinner, and asked for Jesus Christ to remember him in His kingdom. He didn't just believe and keep his mouth shut. He acted. He was saved by Grace though faith.
[ March 22, 2004, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: Kathryn ]
An example of prayer being necessary for salvation is the thief on the cross. He prayed directly to Jesus, confessed he was a sinner, and asked for Jesus Christ to remember him in His kingdom. He didn't just believe and keep his mouth shut. He acted. He was saved by Grace though faith.
[ March 22, 2004, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: Kathryn ]
This is how God gives his gift of faith. This is why the Great Commission was given to the Church to go out to all nations making disciples and baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all He commanded. The Gospel of Jesus Christ must be brought to the whole world. </font>[/QUOTE]Kathryn, God gave his Only Son, God gave His Word, God abides in HIS Grace. We, God's created man, are witnesses to God the Son, we have the word of God, and even while God abides in His grace toward us there are many who do not have faith! What ever could the problem be? Is God not capable of given FAITH to everyone?
The Fact is, God does not give faith to anyone! But because you refuse to read Ephesians 2:1-10 and get the full context from which you extract vs 8 to prove a point you cannot prove, you will never understand what vs 8 and 9 really say.
God gives every reason for us to have faith, but does not give us faith! God made man with the innate capability do develop and retain faith because faith is needed where Knowledge is lacking! Faith is strictly a human attribute!
Deity has no thinkable need for faith because God is all knowing, All seeing, All hearing. Is there anyone anywhere that God needs to have faith in? God says He knows of none!
Yelsew:
Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me , to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith . (God gives faith) He gives faith, hope, and charity because we need it, not Him.
God has no need of faith. The gifts God gives us are not needed by God. He is the object of our faith, He is the object of our hope, and He is love itself. God gives us everything we need for our salvation. “And my God will supply all your needs according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus.” Philippians 4:19
Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me , to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith . (God gives faith) He gives faith, hope, and charity because we need it, not Him.
Kathryn, Can you name for me another species in God's creation that has faith, needs faith, is able to have faith? I know of none.
What other species:
Talks of faith?
Reads about faith?
Tells other's about faith?
So, then faith is strictly a human attribute, an attribute being something that is true of the one having it.
Faith is not an attribute of God, though faithfulness is! But faith and faithfulness are not the same thing.
Yelsew:
God gives the gift of faith to humans who accept it. Only humans have the need for faith. Only humans were created with immortal souls.
"And my God will supply all your needs according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus." Philippians 4:19
Holy Scripture teaches "By grace you have been saved." Eph 2:5
"For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith." Rom 12:3 (God gives faith)
Maybe you are confusing the gift of faith, with the human ability to believe something. Humans are able to believe in all sorts of things, yet this is not the gift of faith from God. Faith comes from God, not us. If we need more faith, we can ask for it. This is a promise from the Word of God. You seem to be talking about believing. If you have the gift of faith your belief will be in Jesus Christ and all he taught, did, and commanded. This is salvation by Grace through faith.
[ March 23, 2004, 01:57 AM: Message edited by: Kathryn ]
God gives the gift of faith to humans who accept it. Only humans have the need for faith. Only humans were created with immortal souls.
"And my God will supply all your needs according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus." Philippians 4:19
Holy Scripture teaches "By grace you have been saved." Eph 2:5
"For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith." Rom 12:3 (God gives faith)
Maybe you are confusing the gift of faith, with the human ability to believe something. Humans are able to believe in all sorts of things, yet this is not the gift of faith from God. Faith comes from God, not us. If we need more faith, we can ask for it. This is a promise from the Word of God. You seem to be talking about believing. If you have the gift of faith your belief will be in Jesus Christ and all he taught, did, and commanded. This is salvation by Grace through faith.
[ March 23, 2004, 01:57 AM: Message edited by: Kathryn ]
neal4christ
New Member
Show me sola Scripture, from the Bible. Does your church have altar calls? Show me from the Bible. In fact, show me where "faith alone" is mentioned in the Bible, please.
In Christ,
Neal
Neal,
About salvation, the bible says:
Jesus the son of God atoned for all sins for all times. The RESULT? Sins are paid for and the penalty, death, is not assessed against the sinner as justice for his/her sins.
"not of works", No man can earn salvation!
That takes care of the things that would prevent one from receiving salvation....Right?
Wrong! There is one other factor that keeps one from recieving Salvation and that is LACK OF FAITH in God, Devoid of faith in God, NOT having faith in God.
God behaves in accordance with HIS grace toward all mankind equally, no man getting more or less of God's grace than any other. So Grace is not dispensed to individuals like a commodity, but provides the environment in which all mankind are to operate. Should God change from being Gracious toward his creation to being Just, everything God created would be subjected to His wrath or Justice.
God gave us His only Son, who atoned for sin
God gave us His Holy Word so that we could hear it.
God created man with the ability to have faith.
So now with sins atoned, and Works not a factor, that leaves FAITH ALONE as the only factor in man's SALVATION while God's Grace Prevails.
Salvation is by FAITH ALONE!
About salvation, the bible says:
Jesus the son of God atoned for all sins for all times. The RESULT? Sins are paid for and the penalty, death, is not assessed against the sinner as justice for his/her sins.
"not of works", No man can earn salvation!
That takes care of the things that would prevent one from receiving salvation....Right?
Wrong! There is one other factor that keeps one from recieving Salvation and that is LACK OF FAITH in God, Devoid of faith in God, NOT having faith in God.
God behaves in accordance with HIS grace toward all mankind equally, no man getting more or less of God's grace than any other. So Grace is not dispensed to individuals like a commodity, but provides the environment in which all mankind are to operate. Should God change from being Gracious toward his creation to being Just, everything God created would be subjected to His wrath or Justice.
God gave us His only Son, who atoned for sin
God gave us His Holy Word so that we could hear it.
God created man with the ability to have faith.
So now with sins atoned, and Works not a factor, that leaves FAITH ALONE as the only factor in man's SALVATION while God's Grace Prevails.
Salvation is by FAITH ALONE!
Brother Adam
New Member
You must be one special person Adam.
The Bible says that no man has seen God face to face, and lived.
Even when Christ was on earth, concerning baptism Jesus baptized no one, only his disciples baptized.
But now Jesus is not here in person.
So tell me: Have you ever seen God baptize anyone?
Have you ever seen God being the recipient of anyone's baptism?
Is baptism always done by a man?
Is the recipient of the baptism always a man (mankind meaning inclunding women)?
If the answer is yes here, Adam, then it is a work of man and not of God. Man does it. Man receives it. It is a work of man and not of God. God commands it, but God isn't doing it. Man is doing it, carrying out the command of God. Therefore it is still man's work. A relgious work, yes, but the work of a man, nevertheless. Works have no place in God's economy of salvation. If they do in your understanding of salvaton, then you are not saved, for one can only be saved through grace, by faith, without works. You either believe the Bible or you don't.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]ROFLMAO!!!
Yelsew,
Paul preached a new covenant, one in which the works of the law, that is, Mosaic law, no longer matters. Christ fulfilled the law giving us a better covenant of which he is the mediator.
Man participates in the new covenant through faith. Saved by grace, through faith, right?
I think you are mixing up the mosiac law with the fruits of the Spirit- those actions which God enables us to do through the grace He gives us. I think you would agree that once we are no longer of the world we cannot live of the world correct?
I don't think Kathryn is trying to imply that she has not recieved the justification for her sins, and is trying to do good works to earn it. Is that what you are trying to imply she is implying?
Show me sola Scripture, from the Bible. Does your church have altar calls? Show me from the Bible. In fact, show me where "faith alone" is mentioned in the Bible, please.
In Christ,
Neal </font>[/QUOTE]Neal I was very specific in my answers.
#1. All doctrine must be grounded from the Word of God. The Assumption of Mary is a Catholic Doctrine. Altar Calls are not doctrine. We don't always give an altar call at our church. It is not a doctrine of the church. Neither is taking up a collection. Neither is having an usher. You need to get into your mind what is doctrine.
#2. I have explained very carefully through an exegesis of Ephesians 2:8,9 how this passage teaches that salvation is by faith alone. If you don't believe it then you don't believe the Bible. It is as simple as that.
DHK
Yelsew:
You seem to be confusing believing, which is what humans can do, and the gift of faith from God. The gift of faith comes from God. God gives us what we need for our salvation. Holy Scripture tells us so. We can accept or reject the gift of faith. We hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ and what he did, taught, and commanded. Our human response is to turn our hearts to God and believe the whole Gospel of Jesus Christ. We turn our hearts to God when we accept His gift of faith. Salvation is by Grace through faith. I have already provided all the Scriptural support previously.
You seem to be confusing believing, which is what humans can do, and the gift of faith from God. The gift of faith comes from God. God gives us what we need for our salvation. Holy Scripture tells us so. We can accept or reject the gift of faith. We hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ and what he did, taught, and commanded. Our human response is to turn our hearts to God and believe the whole Gospel of Jesus Christ. We turn our hearts to God when we accept His gift of faith. Salvation is by Grace through faith. I have already provided all the Scriptural support previously.