Could you explain just exactly he said in detail so that we can assessed his commentary?
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Is repentance a neccesary part of the gospel...no doubt about it!
- Thread starter Iconoclast
- Start date
Could you explain just exactly he said in detail so that we can assessed his commentary?
BlackSheepBaptist
New Member
And what is repentance, exactly?
Maybe you can go back and read his post.
Did YOU read AND comprehend or ,...........?
Why....cant you explain it? Wouldn't that be a good way to correct it since you feel it needs correction?
Here is a good description of it:
4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.
7 So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.
8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.
9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;:wavey:
from the 1689 confession of faith;
Chapter 15: Of Repentance Unto Life and Salvation
1. Such of the elect as are converted at riper years, having sometime lived in the state of nature, and therein served divers lusts and pleasures, God in their effectual calling giveth them repentance unto life. ( Titus 3:2-5 )
2. Whereas there is none that doth good and sinneth not, and the best of men may, through the power and deceitfulness of their corruption dwelling in them, with the prevalency of temptation, fall into great sins and provocations; God hath, in the covenant of grace, mercifully provided that believers so sinning and falling be renewed through repentance unto salvation. ( Ecclesiastes 7:20; Luke 22:31, 32 )
3. This saving repentance is an evangelical grace, whereby a person, being by the Holy Spirit made sensible of the manifold evils of his sin, doth, by faith in Christ, humble himself for it with godly sorrow, detestation of it, and self-abhorrency, praying for pardon and strength of grace, with a purpose and endeavour, by supplies of the Spirit, to walk before God unto all well-pleasing in all things. ( Zechariah 12:10; Acts 11:18; Ezekiel 36:31; 2 Corinthians 7:11; Psalms 119:6; Psalms 119:128 )
4. As repentance is to be continued through the whole course of our lives, upon the account of the body of death, and the motions thereof, so it is every man's duty to repent of his particular known sins particularly. ( Luke 19:8; 1 Timothy 1:13, 15 )
5. Such is the provision which God hath made through Christ in the covenant of grace for the preservation of believers unto salvation; that although there is no sin so small but it deserves damnation; yet there is no sin so great that it shall bring damnation on them that repent; which makes the constant preaching of repentance necessary. ( Romans 6:23; Isaiah 1:16-18 Isaiah 55:7 )
10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Straight from the good ole 1689.
I agreed totally with your post....I was using voice to text so it came out unclear.
nobody wants to pick up something on the road that might blow up in his face, is why.
I was always taught that if you could explain it then you understand it. Only then can you find fault with it if indeed there is fault to be found. Unfortunately, they find fault without even being able to explain.....actually that is pathetic.
What I have learned is that people who hold to deviant doctrines like to obfuscate the issues because they really cannot defend them. What is happening in this thread is a good example. That is what is pathetic.
There is one single salvation. It is eternal. The gospel is the means to that salvation. Anything else is heresy.
There is one single salvation. It is eternal. The gospel is the means to that salvation. Anything else is heresy.
Gospel repentance is an inward change of mind that is inclusive of the will and heart. Mentally it is a change from unbelief to belief. Emmotionally it is a change from love of darkness to love of light. Volitionally it is a change of resistance to submission to God. - Acts 26:18; Jn. 3:19-21; Rom. 8:7
Thus "repentance" is impossible without turning FROM something to turning TO something. That is why it is inseparable from faith as it is a turning from unbelief and faith is the only alternative to unbelief.
The cause of repentance is the gospel empowered by the Holy Spirit (1 Thes. 1:4-5) or as the Old Testament prophet said "Turn us O God and we shall be turned." Regeneration is God turning us and conversion is us turning by experience.
And where does the Holy Spirit come into Play, and the choice of God to elect you since before the foundations of the world, and the death of our lord & savior Jesus Christ? Does Jesus insuring you will be saved by the shedding of his Blood not factor in?
Great post, clear, and helpful:thumbs::thumbs::wavey:
What Rev said, plus a HUGE AMEN! :thumbs:
Then I guess you disregard any and all who die before ever hearing the gospel.
You, Mitchell, and Iconoclast are as pathetic as they come. You, Mitchell, for your kneejerk reaction where you read your set keywords that tell you to immediately judge and Iconoclast for being as Calvinist as they come, meaning his desire to burn at stake anybody who opposes Calvin's doctrines, like, as is alleged Servetus.
So I will coin a word to describe Icon's pathetic attitude: servetusal (there it is, as expected, the red underline that shows this may not be an English word. lol.).
Okay.
Neither EWF, nor myself, nor any Primitive Baptist that posts here, deny that repentance is necessary. However, repentance is an action, and if I recall correctly, you, Iconoclast, have argued (or it might have been your fellow Calvinist, Luke with the numbers) faith is an action as well.
Any action on the part of the sinner added to what was done by the Lord FOR the sinner, negates any and all definition of grace that both Calvinist and Arminians recite, the gist being grace is unmerited favor.
We insist, with regards to the eternal consequences for the sinner that the work of Christ for and in behalf of the sinner is independent and totally free of any requirement for or on the part of the sinner.
He stepped out of eternity into time, put on human form and flesh, endured a contradiction of sinners according to His Father's will for Him, and the sinner, and went up on that cross with all its pain and shame, willingly, to seal the book of life as the author of eternal salvation which He wrote and finished from the foundation of the world.
You,of all people, should know that unconditional election, the second letter of Calvinists' most revered anagram, means that not only did God elect His own based on unconditionality of race, geography, chronology and other "logy's" pertinent to God and man relationship, but also unconditional as to any action on the part of man.
Yet, here you are, being agreed with by those whose soteriology you oppose, arguing with and insinuating against, people whose soteriology, by and large, agree with you, and which you also stated you agree with, by and large, because you want to add to what your idol, Calvin, has stated in so many words as unconditonal.
All these being said, which I doubt you both will even bother to read and mull about before firing your insinuations at the integrity of our soteriology, but which nevertheless I post for posterity, IN PRINT, let me now proceed to the positive.
EWF, and myself, and any Primitive Baptist worth his salt, agree that the gospel demands repentance, and, faith, and obedience, and trust in the Lord, and all those other things that you and Mitchell and whoever else want to throw into the soup.
We agree with James in his treatise on faith, works, and evidence of being "one of us". We agree with John the Baptist when he demanded "fruits meet for repentance". We agree with the Lord Himself when He told those in His audience that "unless you repent you shall all likewise perish".
But did you notice anything in the above ? What are these actions being described, evaluated, and required ? These are actions of spiritually living men !
Now, pray tell, how could a dead man like Lazarus take off his grave clothes and come out of his tomb unless the Spirit Himself call him out ? Even Jesus Himself's body was brought back to life by the Spirit!!!
So, how can you throw repentance in as a requirement for eternal salvation and pollute an otherwise perfect work ? And Mitchell calls what we PB's believe ungodly ? Talk of someone seeing the mote in his brother's eye !
In another thread you boasted how you shut some people (presumably us) because you proved they were hyper-Calvinists ?
Really ?
And what does that prove you ?
A half-baked Calvinist ?
A hybrid Arminian-Calvinist ?
Man, you are really pathetic.
Afterthought:
We stand by our belief that ETERNAL SALVATION is free for all for whom it was authored by the One in Three from before the foundation of the world, without regard to race, time, politics, theology, creed or the lack of it, and apart from repentance and faith.
We stand by our beliefs that the gospel does not RESULT IN eternal salvation, but that its preaching ...... hath brought life and immortality to light....(2
Timothy 1:10).
We accuse you and Mitchell of making short and limited the expanse and scope of God's eternal salvation by making repentance and faith an addition to it thereby declaring that God had destined into perdition a big part of all of the race of mankind by these requirements and additions to grace to those who have not and will be able to hear the gospel and know about these requirements you add, because of their earthly circumstances such as their limitations as human beings, and their limitations as fallen sinners.
I repeat that eternal salvation for all for whom it was authored by Christ is OVER, DONE, WILL NOT BE REPEATED, and is now a truth for all the elect, regardless of whether they hear the gospel or not.
That salvation from errors and doctrinal or credal truth is what the gospel intends to accomplish, unless, of course, you are able to prove that you, Mitchell, and your company, can reach every man whose names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life with your spirit and quicken them and draw them to Christ.
If you can, then I will worship you, and adore you, and repent of my calling you both: PATHETIC.
Now, I have a life, and maybe so do you and Mitchell.
Whatever.
But I may not be able to respond quick enough to your whimpering about PB's on account of their having said something about your beloved god and prophet, Calvin.
When I come home from living my life, or if I am able to in-between, I will read your pathetic responses and try my best to respond with stubby fingers on my 4 inch android phone screen.
Cheers.
We stand by our belief that ETERNAL SALVATION is free for all for whom it was authored by the One in Three from before the foundation of the world, without regard to race, time, politics, theology, creed or the lack of it, and apart from repentance and faith.
We stand by our beliefs that the gospel does not RESULT IN eternal salvation, but that its preaching ...... hath brought life and immortality to light....(2
Timothy 1:10).
We accuse you and Mitchell of making short and limited the expanse and scope of God's eternal salvation by making repentance and faith an addition to it thereby declaring that God had destined into perdition a big part of all of the race of mankind by these requirements and additions to grace to those who have not and will be able to hear the gospel and know about these requirements you add, because of their earthly circumstances such as their limitations as human beings, and their limitations as fallen sinners.
I repeat that eternal salvation for all for whom it was authored by Christ is OVER, DONE, WILL NOT BE REPEATED, and is now a truth for all the elect, regardless of whether they hear the gospel or not.
That salvation from errors and doctrinal or credal truth is what the gospel intends to accomplish, unless, of course, you are able to prove that you, Mitchell, and your company, can reach every man whose names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life with your spirit and quicken them and draw them to Christ.
If you can, then I will worship you, and adore you, and repent of my calling you both: PATHETIC.
Now, I have a life, and maybe so do you and Mitchell.
Whatever.
But I may not be able to respond quick enough to your whimpering about PB's on account of their having said something about your beloved god and prophet, Calvin.
When I come home from living my life, or if I am able to in-between, I will read your pathetic responses and try my best to respond with stubby fingers on my 4 inch android phone screen.
Cheers.
Last edited by a moderator:
Tom Butler
New Member
Interesting thread. My wife saw the following on the marguee of a Cumberland Presbyterian church in Tennessee.
Presbyterian. not too surprised.
how about this: unmerited favors, with repentance......isn't.