reformedbeliever
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Amen Brother!
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Is salvation available for anyone who desires it?
- Thread starter reformedbeliever
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reformedbeliever
New Member
You know... upon reflection... and waking up from anesthesia... ( I had an epidural steroid injection yesterday... the day I started this thread) I believe I may have looked at the rich young ruler in the wrong light. I must look at him as in fact he went away sad... but to say he never was saved may be wrong. It is only by His mercy and grace that I'm saved. I'm no better than the rich young ruler. Look how blessed we are in America. I'm sure the poorest of us are blessed compared to even the rich young ruler. Especially if we have the resourses to be on the internet. Grace and peace
I think the following verses after the rich man left sad imply he was not saved.
Mat 19:23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "I assure you: It will be hard for a rich person to enter the kingdom of heaven!
Mat 19:24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God."
Mat 19:23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "I assure you: It will be hard for a rich person to enter the kingdom of heaven!
Mat 19:24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God."
Yes, there is. Now if we could find someone who desires it. "Everybody wants to go to Heaven, but nobody wants to die". Everybody wants salvation, but not at the cost of their sin. Something's got to change that. </font>[/QUOTE]You are right.
Joh 12:32 As for Me, if I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all people to Myself."
Hope of Glory
New Member
These verses are talking about entering the Kingdom, not spiritual salvation! Only a saved person can enter, but he's not guaranteed that just because he's saved.
These verses are talking about entering the Kingdom, not spiritual salvation! Only a saved person can enter, but he's not guaranteed that just because he's saved. </font>[/QUOTE]While I agree that "Kingdom of God" is not always referring to salvation, here it is in context.
Mat 19:25 When the disciples heard this, they were utterly astonished and asked, "Then who can be saved?"
reformedbeliever
New Member
It didn't say it was impossible ... only hard for a rich person to enter. Salvation is by grace alone through faith.
Correct, while not totally impossible (nothing is impossible with God), Jesus was using the example of a camel going through the eye of a needle. If He was not using the RYR as an example of "near impossible", I don't know what is impossible. The RYR left at that point not saved. The Bible does not say whether he was saved or not at a future date. I can only go by the fact he was not saved when he left. My guess is if he found a way for a camel to go through a needle, he may be. 
Hope of Glory
New Member
Anyone, rich or poor, is spiritually saved the same way: Believe on the Lord Jesus.
Selling all that you own and giving it to the poor is works.
Are you claiming that the rich man could have been saved by works?
Selling all that you own and giving it to the poor is works.
Are you claiming that the rich man could have been saved by works?
Calvibaptist
New Member
We had a whole thread on this already. Go back and read that.
Is who claiming that, me? No way! Jesus was not insinuating a "works" salvation. He told the rich man to sell all he had and then follow Him. You can't serve both God and money, for where your treasure is your heart follows. Jesus knew that he had been relying on works, but what He wanted was his heart.
To the shock of the arminian crowd, calvinism in fact teaches that yes, salvation IS available to all that desire it (however, there is a genuine desire for God, and a false pretensive desire).
The question then becomes, from whence does this desire come? No one can "choose" that which they do not "desire". The Gospel is repulsive to the reprobate. And no one can "believe", that does not believe. How can you, "soul winner", convince someone to believe that which they do not believe? Only God can send His Spirit into our hearts. It is an act of God. It is the greatest miracle.
The question then becomes, from whence does this desire come? No one can "choose" that which they do not "desire". The Gospel is repulsive to the reprobate. And no one can "believe", that does not believe. How can you, "soul winner", convince someone to believe that which they do not believe? Only God can send His Spirit into our hearts. It is an act of God. It is the greatest miracle.
Hope of Glory
New Member
Is who claiming that, me? No way! Jesus was not insinuating a "works" salvation. He told the rich man to sell all he had and then follow Him. You can't serve both God and money, for where your treasure is your heart follows. Jesus knew that he had been relying on works, but what He wanted was his heart. </font>[/QUOTE]Following comes after you are in the family; it is not a way to get into the family.
Following has to do with works. It has to do with justification. It has to do with ruling and reigning.
Calvibaptist
New Member
This view puts you very firmly in the Catholic camp. Justification is our being declared righteous in God's court of law. According to Paul in Romans 4, we are justified by faith, not following (which would be a work).
Jesus' point about following was that you need to understand what you are getting into before you get into it. Too often we want to backdoor people. "If we can just get them to pray the prayer, we can talk about discipleship later." That's not gospel preaching. The gospel involves forsaking all to follow Him. We do this by faith (read Hebrews 11).
This view puts you very firmly in the Catholic camp. Justification is our being declared righteous in God's court of law. According to Paul in Romans 4, we are justified by faith, not following (which would be a work).
Jesus' point about following was that you need to understand what you are getting into before you get into it. Too often we want to backdoor people. "If we can just get them to pray the prayer, we can talk about discipleship later." That's not gospel preaching. The gospel involves forsaking all to follow Him. We do this by faith (read Hebrews 11). [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]See, we do agree on some things.
Calvibaptist
New Member
I knew if we worked long enough, we'd find something!Originally posted by webdog:
See, we do agree on some things.
Hope of Glory
New Member
Believing that following is necessary for salvation is a salvation by works. I reject that notion utterly as being anti-scriptural.
reformedbeliever
New Member
Following is a direct result of salvation, not the cause. A babe in Christ doesn't walk as well as those who are mature... but they follow.