Is Semi-Pelegainism heresy?

[evangelist6589]

Spoke with a man Saturday of this persuasion. We disagreed on much including his rage against Calvinism. But regardless of that he seemed to hold to the essentials of the faith but erred in many other areas. Norm Geisler in CBF calls them extreme Arminian but does not say they teach another gospel. I only will engage churches that teach another gospel and unless I am in left field I will leave semi-Pelegainism alone.

Am I correct or are they another gospel?

 

[InTheLight]

Spoke with a man Saturday of this persuasion. We disagreed on much including his rage against Calvinism. But regardless of that he seemed to hold to the essentials of the faith but erred in many other areas. Norm Geisler in CBF calls them extreme Arminian but does not say they teach another gospel. I only will engage churches that teach another gospel and unless I am in left field I will leave semi-Pelegainism alone.

Am I correct or are they another gospel?

What is semi-Pelegainism? (sic)

 

[The Biblicist]

What is semi-Pelegainism? (sic)

I will give you a definition that those who oppose my position would receive favorably. This is not my definition, but taken from website that advocates these definitions:

Pelagian: any system in which the human person is capable of achieving salvation entirely on his/her own with no divine assistance other than common grace (i.e. the grace necessary for any being to exist).

Semi-Pelagian: any system in which the process of salvation is initiated by the human person apart from any grace other than common grace, but in which the process of salvation is synergistically completed by the cooperative interaction of both divine and human.

Synergism: any system that affirms some kind of cooperative interaction between the divine and the human in the process of salvation

Many, if not most non-calvinists on this forum would agree with the above definitions and take the "Synergism" position and call our position "monergism."

I don't hold to either definition of "synergism" or "monergism" as defined above by Arminians.

 

[Jerome]

Semi-Pelagianism was declared heresy by the Second Council of Orange (AD 529):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Orange_(529)

http://www.reformed.org/documents/i....reformed.org/documents/canons_of_orange.html

 

[preachinjesus]

Because reformed.org is going to accurately portray another belief...

As usual the details are in the definition. How one defines Pelagianism, and thus Semi-Pelagianism, is the key. Few people, if any today, hold to full blown Pelagianism, and the frequent accusation of semi-Pelagianism is often misused.

In fact, without looking up a theological definition or citing wikipedia, most folks today can't properly define Pelagianism.

 

[evangelist6589]

I will give you a definition that those who oppose my position would receive favorably. This is not my definition, but taken from website that advocates these definitions:

Pelagian: any system in which the human person is capable of achieving salvation entirely on his/her own with no divine assistance other than common grace (i.e. the grace necessary for any being to exist).

Semi-Pelagian: any system in which the process of salvation is initiated by the human person apart from any grace other than common grace, but in which the process of salvation is synergistically completed by the cooperative interaction of both divine and human.

Synergism: any system that affirms some kind of cooperative interaction between the divine and the human in the process of salvation

Many, if not most non-calvinists on this forum would agree with the above definitions and take the "Synergism" position and call our position "monergism."

I don't hold to either definition of "synergism" or "monergism" as defined above by Arminians.

Pelegainism I know to be heresy. However the man did not say jesus was not God, man is not a sinner, the cross is not valid, justification was not by faith and so forth so I assumed he had bad doctrines but did not believe in heresy. He denied original sin and was KJVO. Denying original sin meant the man was very confused and has false doctrines.

 

[evangelist6589]

Because reformed.org is going to accurately portray another belief...

As usual the details are in the definition. How one defines Pelagianism, and thus Semi-Pelagianism, is the key. Few people, if any today, hold to full blown Pelagianism, and the frequent accusation of semi-Pelagianism is often misused.

In fact, without looking up a theological definition or citing wikipedia, most folks today can't properly define Pelagianism.

I also want some defs by Arminian on this doctrine which I probably got in Chosen But Free. Geisler says they are confused and in error but not heretics.

 

[InTheLight]

Because reformed.org is going to accurately portray another belief...

Naturally, the only way to understand a non-Cal's beliefs is to reference a Calvinist author's critique of it. It's the only proper way to understand it. :tongue3:

And when Calvinists sense they are losing the argument they will say something like, "So I should believe you instead of Jonathan Edwards, Charles Spurgeon, Arthur Pink, R.C. Sproul, J.I. Packer, Theodore Beza, John MacArthur, John Piper, etc. etc."

 

[InTheLight]

Semi-Pelagianism was declared heresy by the Second Council of Orange (AD 529):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Orange_(529)

http://www.reformed.org/documents/i....reformed.org/documents/canons_of_orange.html

CANON 8. If anyone maintains that some are able to come to the grace of baptism by mercy but others through free will, [..] it is proof that he has no place in the true faith.

"The grace of baptism?" I would say this document is tainted with heresy. So one heretical document calling someone else's doctrine heresy.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Naturally, the only way to understand a non-Cal's beliefs is to reference a Calvinist author's critique of it. It's the only proper way to understand it. :tongue3:

And when Calvinists sense they are losing the argument they will say something like, "So I should believe you instead of Jonathan Edwards, Charles Spurgeon, Arthur Pink, R.C. Sproul, J.I. Packer, Theodore Beza, John MacArthur, John Piper, etc. etc."

Hmmmmm..... I sincerely doubt most have ever done any serious Beza & Pink studying. Mac & Piper....emmmmm yea OK ....maybe!

 

[Jerome]

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/Orange5-8.html

The Council of Orange condemned the Semi-Pelagian doctrine that fallen creatures, although sinful, have an island of righteousness which made them morally competent enough to contribute toward their salvation by taking hold of the offer of the grace of God through an act of their unregenerate natural will. Orange upheld Augustine's view that the will is evil by corruption of nature and becomes good only by a correction of grace. For what makes men to differ, the grace God or the will of man? Below we focus on five (5) of the 25 Canons that have been influential to to the Reformed understanding of the work of Christ in salvation. These truths were hugely consequential in 16th century Reformation Theology and its apprehension of the doctrine's of grace. Grounded in Scripture, this Counsel is devotional theology at its best and will transform the outlook of all who take time to meditate on it.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And why we spending time calling anybody heretics??????

 

[quantumfaith]

http://g0spel0fj0hn.com/2011/02/25/st-augustine-pt-3-pelagius-the-pelagians/

 

[InTheLight]

Grounded in Scripture, this Counsel is devotional theology at its best and will transform the outlook of all who take time to meditate on it. http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/Orange5-8.html

The grace of baptism is all I need to know about it to avoid it.

 

[Don]

And why we spending time calling anybody heretics??????

Ask the opening poster.

 

[InTheLight]

Ask the opening poster.

Hey, I was first! I'm still waiting for an answer from the OP:

What is semi-Pelegainism? (sic)

 

[evangelist6589]

Hey, I was first! I'm still waiting for an answer from the OP:

What is semi-Pelegainism? (sic)

Know you are teasing me by having an icon of my favorite sic-FI TV show right in front of the Twilight Zone.

 

[InTheLight]

Know you are teasing me by having an icon of my favorite sic-FI TV show right in front of the Twilight Zone.

Know you are teasing me by not posting your definition of semi-pelagianism.

 

[Revmitchell]

Know[sic] you are teasing me by not posting your definition of semi-pelagianism.

Hey everyone, there is a typo in someone's post. Let's ban them.

 

[InTheLight]

Hey everyone, there is a typo in someone's post. Let's ban them.

No typo. I didn't mean to type "Now", I meant to type "Know", and I presume Evan meant to type "Know" as well.

Sheesh. Lighten up.