Is Seventh-Day Adventism a Cult?

[BobRyan]

Ok, looking at the information presented (the video), it appears to be the voice of a single disgruntled former SDA member with an agenda.

And of course no denomination on planet earth claims 'there is no such thing as one disgruntled member" or even a subset of them here or there. Even Judas was "disgruntled" with Christ. The fact that naysayers exist both inside and outside any given group does not prove that group to be teaching false doctrine.

To find out - you have to actually "read" what the group claims to teach.

I could not for example say much of anything negative about the Catholic Church that did not come from an infallible ecumenical council decision or the Catholic Catechism. Just finding "a disgruntled Catholic" means nothing in terms of the entire denomination.

 

[BobRyan]

You are very naive, and ignorant on the matter. You only show yourself foolish by your comments.

This is the kind of emotional condemnation that we "expect" from the Bible vacuous domain of emotionalism. name-calling accusation piled upon accusation and all of it essentially factless.

When reason vacates in regard to a given subject, the only weapons of argument left are in the hands of emotion. The simplest emotional weapons to wield are name-calling ,disparaging remarks, vitriol and acrimony for those deemed adversaries. All such ad hominem tactics provide nothing of persuasive substance, except to those whose reason has also been vacated on that same subject.

 

[JonC]

Well that is not true.

1. Baptist Faith and Message
2. Baptist Confession of Faith

might be two good places to start.

My post was actually a bit tongue in cheek as I know interpretations vary. But the question was about Baptist, not Baptist denominations.

 

[BobRyan]

My post was actually a bit tongue in cheek as I know interpretations vary. But the question was about Baptist, not Baptist denominations.

Well then I agree with you that all Baptists should be arguing that their doctrines come from the Bible ... but it would be hard to find a non-Catholic denomination that would not make that claim at some level.

When an outside group asks 'what are the beliefs of your group " they don't generally mean "what are the beliefs of some - one - person in your group"

 

[delizzle]

The Bible

Lol. Okay.

 

[delizzle]

These beliefs (while not exhaustive or representative of all Baptists) are commonly held to by most Baptists. Do you agree with them? What have you learned from your own seminary about Baptists?

The thing that I have learned about Baptist that I have found the most agreement is their structures and systematic approach to hermeneutics. Baptists have a standard and practice that is almost scientific and artistic. I think more denominations need to follow the Baptist approach to hermeneutics. In fact, my hermeneutics professor was Dr. Mark Strauss. He is on the NIV New Testament board and helped translate the NIV NT Greek to English. He also wrote the book How to choose a translation for all its worth and How to read the bible in changing times.

 

[One Baptism]

The thing that I have learned about Baptist that I have found the most agreement is their structures and systematic approach to hermeneutics. Baptists have a standard and practice that is almost scientific and artistic. I think more denominations need to follow the Baptist approach to hermeneutics. In fact, my hermeneutics professor was Dr. Mark Strauss. He is on the NIV New Testament board and helped translate the NIV NT Greek to English. He also wrote the book How to choose a translation for all its worth and How to read the bible in changing times.

You need to read up on the NIV, and its sources and source material, and who is behind the eccumenism, the Jesuits, like Carlo Maria Martini [UBS] [several randomly chosen sources] - The NIV Bible and Jesuit Priest The Catholic Connection | Paw Creek Ministries or UBS Greek NT or AV Publications Content Page or Assault on the Remnant

 

[thatbrian]

Their website? That is like going to Golden Corral for diet advice.

If you've ever tried to find a new Baptist church by reading doctrinal statements, you would know how unhelpful that is, with few exceptions. To understand the FUNCTIONAL theology and practive of a church, one must spend some time there.

Dealing with sects and cults further complicates things, as there often is intentional duplicity in their words and actions, so when dealing with a group like the SDA, you can't go by outward appearances, which is why it's good to hear the testimonies of former SDA members and pastor. Taken together with the SDA formal statements paints a more accurate picture of how the theology is lived out than what the formal statement of faith might reveal.

 

[thatbrian]

This is the kind of emotional condemnation that we "expect" from the Bible vacuous domain of emotionalism. name-calling accusation piled upon accusation and all of it essentially factless.

When reason vacates in regard to a given subject, the only weapons of argument left are in the hands of emotion. The simplest emotional weapons to wield are name-calling ,disparaging remarks, vitriol and acrimony for those deemed adversaries. All such ad hominem tactics provide nothing of persuasive substance, except to those whose reason has also been vacated on that same subject.

If you took the time to read his posts you would see that he admitted ignorance on the matter. BTW, "ignorance" is not a slur. Look it up.

 

[BobRyan]

thatbrian said: ↑
You are very naive, and ignorant on the matter. You only show yourself foolish by your comments

BTW, "ignorance" is not a slur. Look it up.

Sorry given the context of your previous post you appear to be trying to "slap lipstick on a pig" as the saying goes. Your post was clearly distasteful

 

[delizzle]

You need to read up on the NIV, and its sources and source material, and who is behind the eccumenism, the Jesuits, like Carlo Maria Martini [UBS] [several randomly chosen sources] - The NIV Bible and Jesuit Priest The Catholic Connection | Paw Creek Ministries or UBS Greek NT or AV Publications Content Page or Assault on the Remnant

That source was completely and utterly false. I had to stop reading it after the first paragraph because it was blatantly obvious that the author knows nothing about the NIV translation process and purpose of a thought for thought dynamic translation vs the word for word formal equivalent translation. Not to mention that the KJV was translated from a few late Byzantine manuscripts. The NIV was the product of the textual criticism of literally thousands of manuscripts from a much earlier Alexandria manuscripts which are known to be more accurate.

 

[thatbrian]

Sorry given the context of your previous post you appear to be trying to "slap lipstick on a pig" as the saying goes. Your post was clearly distasteful

1) When someone thinks that cults will come right out and tell you they are cults on their websites, where I come from we call that: naive.

2) He admitted that he was ignorant of the cult of the SDA.

3) By making comments regarding something that he knows very little about he would only cause himself to look foolish.

 

[delizzle]

1) When someone thinks that cults will come right out and tell you they are cults on their websites, where I come from we call that: naive.

2) He admitted that he was ignorant of the cult of the SDA.

3) By making comments regarding something that he knows very little about he would only cause himself to look foolish.

Is it foolish to say that I am not going to pass judgement based on information that is obviously biased and one sided? Would it be wise for me to say that just because you are Baptist you must have protested military funerals? Or am I simply foolish because I don't blindly follow your beliefs? You are the one making the claims against SDA. So you have the burden of proof to support your claims. The problem is that you have yet to provide any credible and unbiased evidence to support your accusations.

 

[BobRyan]

thatbrian said: ↑
You are very naive, and ignorant on the matter. You only show yourself foolish by your comments

thatbrian said: ↑
BTW, "ignorance" is not a slur. Look it up.

Sorry given the context of your previous post you appear to be trying to "slap lipstick on a pig" as the saying goes. Your post was clearly distasteful

1) When someone thinks that cults will come right out and tell you they are cults on their websites, where I come from we call that: naive.

You have already had that statement debunked. The way we know that the Mormon denomination is a cult is by "READING" what they claim to believe as a denomination NOT by simply asking a few defectors to bad mouth them.

this is incredibly obvious to all.

2) He admitted that he was ignorant of the cult of the SDA.

It would be hard to find someone that knows less than you on this topic - but the point remains... the way to "find out" about a group is to "READ" what they claim to believe from their official sources... "making stuff up" or simply limiting yourself to emotional name-calling is pure FLUFF. It has no substance at all.

3) By making comments regarding something that he knows very little about he would only cause himself to look foolish.

That is what you are doing -- what he is doing is "LOOKING" and "READING" to make his mind up for himself based on accurate information -- rather than letting someone like you merely pontificate with blatant emotionalism to "inform" him of what the reality of the situation is.

I don't blame anyone for rejecting "sola emotionalism" in favor of "sola scriptura" and real facts on doctrine.

 

[BobRyan]

Is it foolish to say that I am not going to pass judgement based on information that is obviously biased and one sided? Would it be wise for me to say that just because you are Baptist you must have protested military funerals? Or am I simply foolish because I don't blindly follow your beliefs? You are the one making the claims against SDA. So you have the burden of proof to support your claims. The problem is that you have yet to provide any credible and unbiased evidence to support your accusations.

this is an excellent point.

I do not come to this board to accuse every baptist group of being 'just another flavor of Westboro Baptist" and no matter how many "Westboro Baptist VIDEOS" I would post - that entire "sola emotionalism" argument would be mere fluff and slander against other Baptists.

It is incredibly obvious to all.. or "nearly all"

 

[thatbrian]

this is an excellent point.

I do not come to this board to accuse every baptist group of being 'just another flavor of Westboro Baptist" and no matter how many "Westboro Baptist VIDEOS" I would post - that entire "sola emotionalism" argument would be mere fluff and slander against other Baptists.

It is incredibly obvious to all.. or "nearly all"

Baptists are not centralized. The SDA is unified. It is centralized.

 

[Adonia]

According to this definition, Christianity is a cult. Christianity is "a particular system of religious worship" with "rites and ceremonies" (baptism, communion, ect.) And it devotes itself to or venerates Jesus Christ. This is interesting because the first century church was regarded as a cult by the mainstream.

And each individual Christian sect could be said to be it's own cult within the greater cult. They have leaders who give their own take on what the Scriptures really say.

 

[BobRyan]

thatbrian said: ↑
The SDA meets the definition of a cult: Webster’s Dictionary by Random House: cult n. 1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies. 2. a. a group that devotes itself to or venerates a person, ideal, fad, etc.

According to this definition, Christianity is a cult. Christianity is "a particular system of religious worship" with "rites and ceremonies" (baptism, communion, ect.) And it devotes itself to or venerates Jesus Christ. This is interesting because the first century church was regarded as a cult by the mainstream.

And each individual Christian sect could be said to be it's own cult within the greater cult. They have leaders who give their own take on what the Scriptures really say.

Just as many would say the Pope is a "leader" for one denomination who gives his take on what scriptures say.

Pope John Paul II gives this interesting and more general use of the term "Cultic" in Dies Domini connecting God's Commandments - the TEN Commandments with the New Covenant where the "Law is written on the heart"


Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.

quote

 

[Adonia]

Just as many would say the Pope is a "leader" for one denomination who gives his take on what scriptures say.

Pope John Paul II gives this interesting and more general use of the term "Cultic" in Dies Domini connecting God's Commandments - the TEN Commandments with the New Covenant where the "Law is written on the heart"


Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.

quote

The word "cult" cannot always be used as a pejorative or something evil. Am I a part of the cult of Jesus Christ? You betcha! Here are some definitions from Dictionary.com.

1. A particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

2.A group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.

3. A religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.

4. The members of such a religion or sect.

 

[BobRyan]

The word "cult" cannot always be used as a pejorative or something evil. Am I a part of the cult of Jesus Christ? You betcha!

That was my point as well

emotionalism has a lot of short sighted "zingers" that in the end turn out to be "fluff" due to lack of attention to detail.