Is "soulwinning" a fundamental?

[Dale-c]

Could you elaborate Dale? I probably am in agreement with you if you mean what I think you mean.

I am not totally sure what the passage in proverbs is referring to.
But if we apply it the way many churches do to evangelism, it places the responsibility of results on man rather than God.
It also allows for the soul winner to boast about his wisdom in winning souls.
I think winning souls in proverbs and preaching the gospel are different things.

When we preach the gospel, we want people to respond but our goal is faithfulness to the word of God first an foremost.
The results are only a secondary concern.

 

[Dale-c]

So how does your church accomplish that in your town?

To complete the answer to this question, most simply share the gospel as the opportunity arises in their sphere of influence.
I have heard some talk about witnessing to co workers and others to relatives etc.

 

[Don]

and that, my friends, is soul-winning.

 

[Revmitchell]

Exactly, and "soul winning" is nowhere mentioned in the great commission.
There is a difference between soul winning and preaching the gospel.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :BangHead:

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Exactly, and "soul winning" is nowhere mentioned in the great commission. There is a difference between soul winning and preaching the gospel

If we are not supposed to be soul-winners, what is the use in preaching the Gospel? Isn't the Gospel given so that the lost might be saved?

 

[John of Japan]

Actually, we have hit most of the doors in our town.
Our church was also on the radio for several years.
I currently produce a gospel radio show that airs every sunday.
My dad who is the pastor is also the chaplain for the county jail and has countless opportunities to evangelize. Out of that many have made professions and several has shown real evidence of being saved.

I am not in any way against sharing the gospel.

I am against churches legislating to it's members one form of evangelizing as required when the Bible does not say it is.

I care more about the faithfulness to the gospel than to the number of decisions that are made.

I'll cautiously agree with your statements here. What puzzled me was your statement, "But going door to door like the JWs IMO is just an invention of man."

As I see it, the Great Commission (in each of the five statements of it) is simply our marching orders. No methodology is given in the Great Commission. So as I said before, any method of spreading the Gospel is legitimate, as long as it is not immoral, unethical or directly un-Biblical.

I'm always disappointed when people say, "That method is not Biblical" since, as I say, no methods are given in the Bible. One day a lady criticized D. L. Moody's methods of evangelism. After humbly admitting he made many mistakes in his evangelism, he asked her how she did it. When he learned she did no evangelism, he said, "I like the way I win souls better than the way you do not!"

 

[readmore]

I cannot imagine a Christian not wanting to lead people to the Lord!

When something good happens to us, we naturally want to tell people about it. Why is salvation any different?

What did the woman at the well do? She went and told everyone, "Come hear all that this man has done."

That is what we are to do today. We are to bring people to Jesus.

And I can't understand the "sacred cow" mentality that we find a lot in Baptist circles. I cannot imagine a Christian not wanting to lead people to the Lord either, in fact, I would seriously doubt... well, I won't go there.

Your knee-jerk response makes me think there's no good answer to the question, although if someone wants to take a shot at answering, I'm more than open to it... Luckily there are other places in the NT that speak about the importance of evangelism.

 

[Hebron]

I agree with dale, it is not a fundamental

If soul winning is not fundamental then the cross was in vain

If we are not supposed to be soul-winners, what is the use in preaching the Gospel? Isn't the Gospel given so that the lost might be saved?

Yes

Quote:
So how does your church accomplish that in your town?

DaleC wrote

To complete the answer to this question, most simply share the gospel as the opportunity arises in their sphere of influence.
I have heard some talk about witnessing to co workers and others to relatives etc

You both speak as if the Church is a brick building, the Church is not made with hands but is a living organism. It's only mans presumptions naming their church that divides the Saints. eg, Charismatic, Brethren, Baptist etc.

I would say in the time in which we live the working of the Holy Spirit to convict the lost is happening more on a one to one bases.

I'm always disappointed when people say, "That method is not Biblical" since, as I say, no methods are given in the Bible. One day a lady criticized D. L. Moody's methods of evangelism. After humbly admitting he made many mistakes in his evangelism, he asked her how she did it. When he learned she did no evangelism, he said, "I like the way I win souls better than the way you do not!"

Very sad .... We can do nothing without Christ

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. John 6:44

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Your knee-jerk response makes me think there's no good answer to the question, although if someone wants to take a shot at answering, I'm more than open to it... Luckily there are other places in the NT that speak about the importance of evangelism.

I'm not sure If I am understanding what you are saying (i.e. knee-jerk response and sacred cow mentality).

I did post Scriptures about soulwinning in an earlier post if that's what you are referring to.

Or is it that I can't imagine a Christian not wanting to tell people what Jesus has done for them?

Why do we have missionaries?

BTW, one of their favorite songs is:
Win the Lost at Any Cost - Leon Ellis
"Souls are dying, men are crying, won't you lead them to the cross? Go and find them, help to win them."

Your post sounds like because we say "soulwinning", we are leaving Jesus and the Holy Spirit out of it....not true at all.

Could you clarify please?

 

[John of Japan]

Very sad .... We can do nothing without Christ

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. John 6:44

You evidently aimed this at me, since I was the one who said what you quoted. And this is a low blow. Your are insinuating that I do not believe (and that Moody did not believe) in depending on God's power simply because I believe that we are to use human methods. The truth is, I believe very strongly in the power of the Holy Spirit in evangelism, as witness my posts in a recent thread about the fullness of the Holy Spirit. See it at: http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=48135

And D. L. Moody believed strongly in the power of the Holy Spirit, as testified by his friend R. A. Torrey in his booklet, "Why God Used D. L. Moody." Man's methods are needed, since we are His servants (do you deny that?) but are useless without the power of the Holy Spirit.

Next time I hope you investigate a bit before making unfounded insinuations.

 

[Hebron]

I'm so sorry I didn't mean it to you personaly, so forgive me but I do have to say something regarding this comment

I believe that we are to use human methods

No matter how much we read from other men (Moody Torrey etc) no matter how much we point people to them to substantiate our claims, we can do nothing without Christ our human methods fail greatly and it is only through Christ that we can win souls. It is only through Christ we can do anything.

I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.
Phill4:13
Methods do not win souls. We can sit and ponder how to draw people how to make things more attractive but it is only done supernaturaly and is one of the biggest miracles.
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. John 6:44

I do agree the Lord works through His people.

 

[John of Japan]

I'm so sorry I didn't mean it to you personaly, so forgive me but I do have to say something regarding this comment

No problem. Just please be aware that simply because someone mentions human methods does not mean they do not believe in God's power.

No matter how much we read from other men (Moody Torrey etc) no matter how much we point people to them to substantiate our claims, we can do nothing without Christ our human methods fail greatly and it is only through Christ that we can win souls. It is only through Christ we can do anything.

Human methods only fail insomuch as we depend on them without God's power. No matter how filled I am with the Holy Spirit, depending on God's power, knowing that it is Christ Who saves and not me, I still have to print up and give out that tract, go out on the Kaimono Koen (an outdoor shopping mall) and witness with my chart, knock on a door and talk to whoever answers, etc. These are all human methods. It is literally impossible to witness for Christ without some kind of method.

Paul uses methods. He went by the riverside where people gathered and found Lydia. He went to the philosophy school of Tyrannus and used it. He often went into the synagogue and disputed with the rabbis. John used methods. He wrote a tract called the Gospel of John and said that it was specifically written so that people would believe in Jesus.

As I noted previously, the Great Commission in all five statements of it is simply a general command, our marching orders. It does not tell us how to get the Gospel out. That is up to us, as God leads us. No one has a right to judge someone's methods and say, "Oh, that person is not depending on God because he used a radio broadcast--or tract distribution--or a megaphone--or letter writing." Only God knows who is depending on Him to do the actual soul saving work. You don't.

I have a five-point Calvinist friend who wrote Gospel letters to every single person in his home town. Who am I to tell him he shouldn't use that method?!

I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.
Phill4:13
Methods do not win souls. We can sit and ponder how to draw people how to make things more attractive but it is only done supernaturaly and is one of the biggest miracles.
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. John 6:44

I do agree the Lord works through His people.

Now these are statements I can agree with. The methods do not win souls, they open the way for the Gospel as applied by the Holy Spirit.

P. S. Welcome to the Baptist Board! :wavey:

 

[Jarthur001]

Is soulwinning a fundamental? Should it be scheduled and required of members of a fundamental church?

NO. Soul winning is not a fundamental.

Soul winning has been criticized over the last few years. Some criticism is unwanted, but some must be considered and if needs be, we as Fundamentalist must change. In fact, I have started using the phrase “sharing the gospel” because it is closer to what I feel we must be doing.

The biggest criticism is toward a signing of a card. When this is done, people then carry this card are like it’s a ticket to heaven they got 15 years ago. No change in the person’s life. They have not gone to church in all those 15 years, nor have they read the Bible, for their faith is not in the saving work of God, but in their card they signed.

Another thing that is has done damage to soul winning is the sales men closing the sale attitude.

In "Soul Winning Made Easy" there is a chapter called "How to Press for the Decision”.

The reader is taken through a step-by-step way to “close the deal, even telling where to place a persons hands on the sinner. At one point the soul winner is told to count to 10 or some number before praying. They are told when to look at the person and when not to look at the person.

This kind of step by step in order to get the best results forgets all about the power of God in Salvation. Many “sinners” will just say anything to get the “winner” to leave.

I recall in my teens in upstate New York, sharing the gospel. We were near Word Of Life Bible Camp and we pulled into a carwash. The young lady at the carwash, not knowing we were believers in mock said to us…”I hope you are not here to save me, cause I have been saved 3 times today already.” She went on to say, all that came to the camp witnessed to her and she was “saved” 100s of time a year for a number of years. This was the 1st time my eyes were open to something is wrong in the way we do this.

I’m not saying door to door or street witnessing is to be done away with, but there maybe something’s that needs to be change.

Some have limited sharing the gospel to going door to door, which can be part of your outreach, however, it is not a sin to share the gospel in other ways. Yet some have taken it on themselves to treat others that do not go door to door as if they are not “sold out” for expanding the Kingdom of God.

Door to door is not for everyone. Some are better then others at sharing the gospel in this way. Those that have a knack for this means should not be denied the opportunity. On the other hand those that share the gospel in other ways should not be looked down on.

It is our duty to share the gospel, but we must not be locked in to just the ways it was done in the past. I’m not talking about the anything goes attitude found in the seeker movement.

No matter what the means we use, we cannot forget it is not US that saves men, but God. I feel pressure should never be part of sharing the gospel. We are told to go tell the good news, and we will need to leave the opening of the heart to God.

Also, I find some thinking some are “near” to believing more then others. I know I have wrongly thought this before. We cannot look at some as more savable then others. The gospel is to go out to all of mankind, and God will open the eyes to many we would never think is near salvation at all.

I feel the greatest way to share the gospel is to open your home for Bible study. Not to others in your church, but to friends and people that live near you.

In the end it comes down to this. We must share the gospel. The way you do this has much to do with your personality. I like Pipper’s view of missions/outreach myself. The gospel is to go to all the people groups, for this brings glory to God.

 

[readmore]

Great post!

 

[readmore]

I did post Scriptures about soulwinning in an earlier post if that's what you are referring to.

Or is it that I can't imagine a Christian not wanting to tell people what Jesus has done for them?

Why do we have missionaries?

Your post sounds like because we say "soulwinning", we are leaving Jesus and the Holy Spirit out of it....not true at all.

Could you clarify please?

Let's take a step back for a second--I think we had a miscommunication somewhere "back there".

My original question was one of application, regarding your post where you said,

Notice that in all three verses, soulwinning is active...not passive. We are not told to wait for them to come to us...but we are told to go to them.

And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.
Matthew 4:19

And so [was] also James, and John, the sons of Zebedee, which were partners with Simon. And Jesus said unto Simon, Fear not; from henceforth thou shalt catch men.
Luke 5:10

Since Jesus was speaking to specific individuals, it seems a leap to apply it to every Christian as a Biblical pattern for soulwinning. I then mentioned another passage in which Jesus tells two of His disciples to bring him a donkey and a colt and wondered why one passage would apply to us more than the other. And then I increased the scope (and probably the "controversiality") of the question by including the Great Commission in it.

I haven't questioned whether we should win souls or not, or send missionaries, etc... I have a very specific question--and I'm sure there's a good answer. It's just my nature, now to question.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

The donkey and colt were for specific occasions. Jesus did not die for them and he was not teaching them anything. He was asking them for a specific need, at a specific time.

Soul winning is mentioned many times in the Scriptures (Old and New Testaments) and pertains to all men (men here meaning mankind) for all time.

Jesus was making dicisples so they could teach us, down through the generations, to disciple others.

At least that's MHO.

Thanks for the clarification.
§ue

 

[Hebron]

NO. Soul winning is not a fundamental.

That is a very infatic answer, but is it a truthful answer?

Soul winning has been criticized over the last few years.

By man?...God says!
"He that winneth souls is wise." -- Proverbs 11:30
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel (soul win) to every creature.Mark 16:15

I have started using the phrase“sharing the gospel” because it is closer to what I feel we must be doing.

Exactly the same thing as...soul winning!

Another thing that is has done damage to soul winning is the sales men closing the sale attitude.

The biggest damage to soul winning is a compramised Gospel whether from a platform or one to one. We no longer preach or share the true Gospel message it is watered down to make the person like what he wants to hear

In "Soul Winning Made Easy" there is a chapter called "How to Press for the Decision”.

The reader is taken through a step-by-step way to “close the deal, even telling where to place a persons hands on the sinner. At one point the soul winner is told to count to 10 or some number before praying. They are told when to look at the person and when not to look at the person.

Tut! Tut! Tut! does the Holy Spirit need a handbook?...back to that wonderful verse of scripture
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. John 6:44

This kind of step by step in order to get the best results forgets all about the power of God in Salvation. Many “sinners” will just say anything to get the “winner” to leave.

Exactly!

I’m not saying door to door or street witnessing is to be done away with, but there maybe something’s that needs to be change.

The inner man at the door needs to change (and I include myself in what Ive said) our lives should be in obediance to God not with one foot in the world then we may get true results.

I feel the greatest way to share the gospel is to open your home for Bible study. Not to others in your church, but to friends and people that live near you.

Amen! that to me is sharing. Even over a fence, just talking, the Lord can give an opening to ''share the Gospel''

 

[skypair]

Is soulwinning a fundamental?

I believe it is a fundamental of the CHURCH, but individuals are gifted differently, right? In the best list I can find, it still takes the gifts listed in 1Cor 12:7-11 before one can commence anything more than "spontaneous evangelism" on an individual level.

I would say that any church that does not send evangelists out both home and abroad has no claim of fundamentalism.

And Eph 4:11 says that God gave to the church "some ... evangelists." This parallels 1Cor 12:28-30 which actually asks "are all apostles,...?" No, all are not. BUT, if God speaks to us, we ALL ought to "...be ready ALWAYS to give an answer to every man that asketh a reason of the hope that is in you...." 1Pet 3:15 And we can ALL learn more than we know about winning souls to Christ.

Should it be scheduled and required of members of a fundamental church?

In the sense that we all ought to be "ready always to give an answer," training should be offered and encouraged. Scheduled? No. That's the work of the Spirit, no? "Scheduled" to Him is at work (on break, of course); at appropriate gatherings; among family, friends and acquaintances, or through visitation (though people are getting much less receptive unless you catch them outside on a weekend).

What I mean by this last is --- I've been through the "Here's Life America" ("I Found It") campaign, EE, CCC's "survey the whole city" methods. People are not as receptive anymore to phone calls, cold calls at their front doors, etc. Probably the Mormons and JW's have ruined it for us (not to mention the "mulch salesmen," the magazine salesmen, etc. ) The church and individuals today have to make another, more personal "connection," even if it is just answering visitation cards ... or a less "invasive" scheme, like distributing tracts. But in doing the tract method, I would still go for that personal connection -- ask if they will read it; ask if they go to church; ask about family; ask if they want to read it now (often people will think you are "judging them" if YOU tell them so put out the more objective tract and see if they have questions).

skypair

 

[David Lamb]

Isn't the Gospel given so that the lost might be saved?

Yes, but the preacher or the person witnessing does not actually save the person ("win" their soul). As far as I know, the only place in the bible that talks about winning souls is Proverbs 11.30, which is the only instance of that particular Hebrew word, which occurs 909 times, being translated into English as "wins" or "winneth"

The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life, And he who wins souls is wise.

We have a TCGreek on the Baptist Board - do we have a "TCHebrew" who could tell us more accurately what that word actually means in Proverbs 11.30?

I think the word "soulwinning" is open to misinterpretation.

 

[David Lamb]

Soul winning is mentioned many times in the Scriptures (Old and New Testaments) and.
§ue

Many times? Could you give a few examples? The only one I can find is Proverbs 11.30. Unless you are taking it that "winning souls" is the same as "spreading the gospel", which surely it cannot be, for not everyone who hears the gospel is saved ("has his soul won").