Is Spiritual death a Biblical Concept then?

[Charlie24]

I certainly see the audience as saved but not progressing, babes in Christ. Paul makes that clear in 5:11-14.

He didn't want to embarrass them, but he had to let them know that they had been saved long enough to know these things but they didn't know.

"Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."

So, as usual Jon. we disagree.

 

[JonC]

I certainly see the audience as saved but not progressing, babes in Christ. Paul makes that clear in 5:11-14.

He didn't want to embarrass them, but he had to let them know that they had been saved long enough to know these things but they didn't know.

"Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."

That is where our views differ.

I view that those elementary things, that foundation, was the OT and the audience being encouraged to move on to a mature Hebrew faith in the New Covenant.

I believe this is the benefit we can gain from discussing God's Word and different interpretations. We certainly do not have to agree, but we can walk away knowing why the other holds the understanding they hold. Each of us accept Scripture and each of us hold a legitimate and logical understanding of Scripture but both of us do so based on our understanding of the context of Hebrews.

I am not one who opposes different views. In fact, I believe we benefit as a whole by discussing these differences. As long as the basis remains a faithfulness to God's Word we have the common ground to have a discussion.


In the end our difference here does not matter. What we differ about is not salvation or who is saved from the wrath to come at Judgment, but whether those who are not saved once was.

It does not matter for two important reasons:

1. We hold the sane ultimate conclusion - those who reject Christ are not saved.

2. The issue of those who reject Christ is not the focus of Hebrews.


Our benefit, although we will never come to the same conclusion, is that we gather around God's Word.



All you need to do to be correct is agree with me, but wrong people are interesting in their own way too.

 

[Charlie24]

That is where our views differ.

I view that those elementary things, that foundation, was the OT and the audience being encouraged to move on to a mature Hebrew faith in the New Covenant.

I believe this is the benefit we can gain from discussing God's Word and different interpretations. We certainly do not have to agree, but we can walk away knowing why the other holds the understanding they hold. Each of us accept Scripture and each of us hold a legitimate and logical understanding of Scripture but both of us do so based on our understanding of the context of Hebrews.

I am not one who opposes different views. In fact, I believe we benefit as a whole by discussing these differences. As long as the basis remains a faithfulness to God's Word we have the common ground to have a discussion.


In the end our difference here does not matter. What we differ about is not salvation or who is saved from the wrath to come at Judgment, but whether those who are not saved once was.

It does not matter for two important reasons:

1. We hold the sane ultimate conclusion - those who reject Christ are not saved.

2. The issue of those who reject Christ is not the focus of Hebrews.


Our benefit, although we will never come to the same conclusion, is that we gather around God's Word.



All you need to do to be correct is agree with me, but wrong people are interesting in their own way too.

Yes, I can see that if I don't agree with you, I'm wrong, lol.

 

[JonC]

Yes, I can see that if I don't agree with you, I'm wrong, lol.

That is the first step to wisdom, Grasshopper.

 

[Van]

I see I am late to this parade, as we are now on page 6.

Being physically alive yet somehow "dead in sin, flesh, wrongdoing, etc" is a biblical concept.
See Ephesians 2:1, 2:5 and, Colossians 2:13.

Next we have the idea that at some time we "died" our spiritual death in sin. This I think is misleading, as I believe we are conceived in sin, so when God forms our human spirit within our physical body, it is in some manner "dead."

I believe this "dead" condition is to be spiritually separated from God, He is Holy and our sinful condition as "made sinners" means we are separated from our holy God. Now, being dead means to be disabled in various ways. Physically we cannot move, communicate, or be aware because our body returns to dust. Spiritually we cannot move, meaning change our location from being "in Adam" or "in the realm of darkness" to being "in Christ" or "in the kingdom of His marvelous light." We cannot do anything, as all our works of righteousness are as filthy rags to God, to earn, merit, cause our salvation, as only God can transfer us into Christ where we are made alive together with Christ.

Some add other consequences to being spiritually dead, such as total spiritual inability, but his is an argument from silence to be kind.

 

[Charlie24]

That is the first step to wisdom, Grasshopper.

LOL, Grasshopper's master was a blind man.