standingfirminChrist
New Member
So, did Saul commit suicide by falling on his own sword (1 Samuel 31)? or did God kill him (1 Chron. 10)?
There seems to be a contradiction here.
There seems to be a contradiction here.
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Is Suicide a sin?
- Thread starter Rex77
- Start date
Theres no contradiction........
Saul is recorded as having killed himself in both passages. In the I Chron. passage it is stated that he died because he had disobeyed the Lord.....if he had obeyed God and sought counsel from the proper person than he would not have been in the position which made him determine to kill himself.
Saul is recorded as having killed himself in both passages. In the I Chron. passage it is stated that he died because he had disobeyed the Lord.....if he had obeyed God and sought counsel from the proper person than he would not have been in the position which made him determine to kill himself.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Thank you, bapmom. I knew there was no contradiction. Saul did indeed commit suicide.
Judgment
God is sovereign even and including the days of our lives! Even if He doesnt take a life by a lightening bolt there is still potential judgment for gross disobedience to Him that doesnt always wait until the next life or Judgment Day.
1 Cor 11:29,30 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
This was promise of judgment for taking the Lord's supper unworthily; with Saul it was for extreme disobedience!
God is sovereign even and including the days of our lives! Even if He doesnt take a life by a lightening bolt there is still potential judgment for gross disobedience to Him that doesnt always wait until the next life or Judgment Day.
1 Cor 11:29,30 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
This was promise of judgment for taking the Lord's supper unworthily; with Saul it was for extreme disobedience!
Brother Bob
New Member
2B;
I agree with you!
I agree with you!
standingfirminChrist said:
There is no contradiction in the two statements.
God in HIs sovereignty can cause whatever chain of events He chooses to effect His will. There are so many examples of events as such in scripture!
Prov 16:9 A man's heart plans his way
But the Lord directs his steps.
Prov 21: 1 The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord,
Like the rivers of water; He turns it wherever He wishes.
Every way of a man is right in his own eyes,
But the Lord weighs the hearts. Prov 21: 2
It is amazing that there are always those who think God needs help in judging people's eternal destination. Anyone who says that a Christian can't or wont commit suicide is just ignorant. All people Christian and non-Christian can get to the place of complete dispair and are capable of taking their own lives. I also think that anyone who thinks a Christian cannot get to this point has never done any serious ministry into people's lives. Its easy to sit back and throw Scriptures at people, the pharisees were good at it, it is a whole nother thing to spend time and really minister where people are and that is how Jesus did it.
Bro Tony
Bro Tony
ccrobinson
Active Member
Oh, I see how this works. You're parsing your words. Even though you totally meant that a Christian who commits suicide would lose their salvation, you didn't say the exact words.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
CCRobinson. I meant what I said. A christian cannot lose his or her salvation. If one claiming to be a christian commits suicide, that one could not have been a christian, other than in his own mind.
No murderer shall inherit heaven.
When one commits suicide, one shows they do not place their faith in Christ. One cannot be a christian and intentionally kill oneself. God has promised that He would not allow more to be put on the child of God than he is able to bear. If one thinks that a burden is so unbearable that one has to take his own life, that one apparently was never in Christ in the first place.
Also, Christ Himself said He gives us a peace that passes all understanding. How can one claim to be in Christ and not have the peace of Christ?
No murderer shall inherit heaven.
When one commits suicide, one shows they do not place their faith in Christ. One cannot be a christian and intentionally kill oneself. God has promised that He would not allow more to be put on the child of God than he is able to bear. If one thinks that a burden is so unbearable that one has to take his own life, that one apparently was never in Christ in the first place.
Also, Christ Himself said He gives us a peace that passes all understanding. How can one claim to be in Christ and not have the peace of Christ?
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Man, am I ever glad that certain people wont be in the place of Judgment in that Day. I am also glad that the Lord doesnt need their help. It was the pharisees in Jesus' day that went around condemning everybody. It was Jesus who met people where they were and ministered to their needs and changed their lives. Not by throwing judgmental words at them but by loving them in the truth.
I would say again that anyone who thinks that a Christian cannot get to the place of complete despair and even take their own life is just ignorant. That person should never attempt to counsel with a person going through hard times.
I will let God determine who is going to heaven and it was His Son who said the only sin that is unforgiveable is the unpardonable sin.
By somes logic then no liar can go to heaven cause that is what the Bible says---but those same people have lied on this very board....careful with what measure you judge, you shall be judge----that is what Jesus said.
Bro Tony
I would say again that anyone who thinks that a Christian cannot get to the place of complete despair and even take their own life is just ignorant. That person should never attempt to counsel with a person going through hard times.
I will let God determine who is going to heaven and it was His Son who said the only sin that is unforgiveable is the unpardonable sin.
By somes logic then no liar can go to heaven cause that is what the Bible says---but those same people have lied on this very board....careful with what measure you judge, you shall be judge----that is what Jesus said.
Bro Tony
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Bro Tony said:
Pharisees did not condemn everybody, they added to the Word of God. Jesus did judge and called people 'hypocrites.' Jesus did not meet people where they were, they came to Him, they were brought to Him. The demoniac did not wait for Jesus to come for him, he went to Jesus..
Jesus said He would never leave us. It is satan who whispers to a person that life is useless. Jesus said 'My sheep hear my voice and a stranger they will not follow.'
Murderers shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Suicide is murder. Can't be any plainer.
standingfirminChrist said:
Just more examples of how bad your exegesis of Scripture really is. Are you serious---pharisees did not condemn everybody----Jesus did not meet people where they were---are you serious? And you statement that Jesus judged people and called them hypocrites, please read again and see who He was addressing, let me help you, it was the very pharisees that do what you do. It was not the people dealing with life and struggling with sin. He did meet them where they were, He went to them in their cities and shared the love of His father and healed their sickness.
I really wish you would go back to school and learn a little about how to study and interprete the Bible. Your poor exegesis is going to do much harm in the lives of hurting people who need messages of hope----both Christians and non-christians alike.
Bro Tony
BTW---I noticed you did not deal with my last statement on liars....liars will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven--cant be any plainer.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
2 Corinthians 4:8-10 are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; 9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; 10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
2 Corinthians 11:23-28 Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. 24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. 25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; 26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; 27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. 28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.
Paul went through more than many would in two or three lifetimes, yet he did not commit suicide.
Why? Because He did not listen to satan's lies.
Eve listened to satan's lies in the garden and because of that, she died spiritually. One who listens to satan's lies and commits suicide shall never see life, but are dead in that sin of murder.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Again, I leave you to your folly. Advise people that they can commit suicide and go to heaven. That is just what satan wants. I will choose to listen to the voice of my Shepherd, the Lord Jesus Christ.
standingfirminChrist said:
Okay---now I understand and you have proved your point biblically
Not.The Scripture you posted doesnt prove that a Christian can't commit suicide, except in your strange little world. Again, I am glad God does not need your help in the Day of Judgment. I hope you will do something when you get to heaven that you have thus far refuse to do here. And that is go up to those who will be there whose lives were filled with so much despair they could not go on, and when you see them you will say, "sorry, I was wrong"
Bro Tony
T
TaterTot
Guest
so if suicide is unpardonable, and the Bible says that there is one sin that is, then what is blasphemy? I am sure that many people who commit suicide are not Christians. However, I know of some who have chosen to take their own lives that had had a very meaningful walk with Christ and slipped into despair. So is it a sin, like the OP asks? Sure it is. But I dont see where biblically it can be proven to send one to Hell.
Marcia
Active Member
SFIC, you seem to be saying that suicide is an unforgiveable sin. This is not in the Bible.
Yes, it is true that we should not give in to despair, we should not get so low that we take our own life, we should continue on no matter what -- that is the model. But not everyone lives according to the model all the time! If this were the case, none of us would sin. But we do still sin, and suicide is one of those sins. It is a very extreme thing to do, but that does not mean God does not forgive it.
You are saying that suicide is so bad it can't be forgiven. Christians can have clinical depression, which many believe is chemically caused. It is an illness. The drugs for it don't always work.
I am not endorsing suicide or saying it's okay -- I consider it a sin. But like our other sins, they have been forgiven if someone has trusted in Christ. What if you were to die while committing a sin? Do you think God wouldn't forgive you?
Yes, it is true that we should not give in to despair, we should not get so low that we take our own life, we should continue on no matter what -- that is the model. But not everyone lives according to the model all the time! If this were the case, none of us would sin. But we do still sin, and suicide is one of those sins. It is a very extreme thing to do, but that does not mean God does not forgive it.
You are saying that suicide is so bad it can't be forgiven. Christians can have clinical depression, which many believe is chemically caused. It is an illness. The drugs for it don't always work.
I am not endorsing suicide or saying it's okay -- I consider it a sin. But like our other sins, they have been forgiven if someone has trusted in Christ. What if you were to die while committing a sin? Do you think God wouldn't forgive you?
I think one thing that gets forgotten when people think of sin, is that fact that when you accepted Christ as your Saviour and were repentant of the sins you had commited and asked Him for forgiveness, He forgave you, and He didn't just forgive us of the sins we had already commited, He forgave us of ALL our sins past, present and future.
Once you are saved, your name is written in the Book and no man or God or angel or whatever can take your name out. Your name is written in blood, it cannot be erased, crossed out or torn out, it's there to stay. Praise God!
Once you are saved, your name is written in the Book and no man or God or angel or whatever can take your name out. Your name is written in blood, it cannot be erased, crossed out or torn out, it's there to stay. Praise God!