Scott_Bushey
<img src=/scott.jpg>
Clint I will contrast the presented scriptures with the replacement phrase you have suggested.........( I don't believe I am doing this....I'll humor you!)
Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but *those with a sin nature* (sinners-harmartolos) to repentance.
~Does a sin nature necessarily imply "sinning?"
Why would someone need repentance who has not sinned?
Mat 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and *those with a sin-like nature* (sinners-harmartolos). But wisdom is justified of her children.
Luke 15:2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth *those with a sin-like nature* (sinners-harmartolos), and eateth with them.
Luke 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for *those with a sin-like nature* (sinners-harmartolos) also do even the same.
John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not *those with a sin-like nature* (sinners-harmartolos): but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet *those with a sin-like nature* (sinners-harmartolos), Christ died for us.
Gal 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners (harmartolos) of the Gentiles,
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners (harmartolos), is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
1 Tim 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1 Tim 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for *those with a sin-like nature* (sinners-harmartolos), for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
I must admit Clint.........I have now been enlightened!
You write:
So being exposed to the punishment of sin equals being guilty of the sin? This is not so:
Scott asks:
Sin equals punishment-no? I don't get it? Sin warrants discipline = punishment. Mankind sins, God condemns and punishes! Unless of course you want to change this also?
Scott reiteratesin regards to God being the creator of evil:
(Previously Posted)
I would assume you understand that there is a big difference between God decreeing something and God creating a thing, i.e. God creating evil and His allowance of it. God allowed sin to come into the world---He didn't however, create it.
You respond with:
"I disagree:"
Proverbs 16
4The LORD has made everything for its purpose,
even the wicked for the day of trouble.
Scott states:
1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
First of all, scripture is clear, God hath created all things......
You didn't present your understanding of the difference between a theocratic decree and God creating a thing.........This is an important theological element in understanding the attributes of God.
I agree that the scriptures are, as have been put by a few, tricky, and yet, they cannot contradict! In the regards that scripture does state that God had "created the day of evil", theologically speaking, if you endeavor, you will find that this idea, of God being the creator of evil, is just not so and in no way contradicts the harmony or Gods character.
As far as my definition of your Ezekiel and Jeremiah premise.......It wasn't my idea. I researched it. I suggest you do the same as the connection and idea you are proposing is none less than a weak straw man argument.
[ October 23, 2002, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: Scott Bushey ]
Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but *those with a sin nature* (sinners-harmartolos) to repentance.
~Does a sin nature necessarily imply "sinning?"
Why would someone need repentance who has not sinned?
Mat 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and *those with a sin-like nature* (sinners-harmartolos). But wisdom is justified of her children.
Luke 15:2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth *those with a sin-like nature* (sinners-harmartolos), and eateth with them.
Luke 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for *those with a sin-like nature* (sinners-harmartolos) also do even the same.
John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not *those with a sin-like nature* (sinners-harmartolos): but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet *those with a sin-like nature* (sinners-harmartolos), Christ died for us.
Gal 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners (harmartolos) of the Gentiles,
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners (harmartolos), is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
1 Tim 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1 Tim 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for *those with a sin-like nature* (sinners-harmartolos), for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
I must admit Clint.........I have now been enlightened!
You write:
So being exposed to the punishment of sin equals being guilty of the sin? This is not so:
Scott asks:
Sin equals punishment-no? I don't get it? Sin warrants discipline = punishment. Mankind sins, God condemns and punishes! Unless of course you want to change this also?
Scott reiteratesin regards to God being the creator of evil:
(Previously Posted)
I would assume you understand that there is a big difference between God decreeing something and God creating a thing, i.e. God creating evil and His allowance of it. God allowed sin to come into the world---He didn't however, create it.
You respond with:
"I disagree:"
Proverbs 16
4The LORD has made everything for its purpose,
even the wicked for the day of trouble.
Scott states:
1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
First of all, scripture is clear, God hath created all things......
You didn't present your understanding of the difference between a theocratic decree and God creating a thing.........This is an important theological element in understanding the attributes of God.
I agree that the scriptures are, as have been put by a few, tricky, and yet, they cannot contradict! In the regards that scripture does state that God had "created the day of evil", theologically speaking, if you endeavor, you will find that this idea, of God being the creator of evil, is just not so and in no way contradicts the harmony or Gods character.
As far as my definition of your Ezekiel and Jeremiah premise.......It wasn't my idea. I researched it. I suggest you do the same as the connection and idea you are proposing is none less than a weak straw man argument.
[ October 23, 2002, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: Scott Bushey ]
