Is the Anti KJVO Movement making a difference?

[GeneMBridges]

There are no anti-KJV people here, sir. (That's what's called a straw man argument).

No MV is against the KJV. We believe the KJV is God's Word. We also believe this applies to other translations, like the NASB.

We believe that Scripture. We disagree that the KJV is the only valid translation, that it is specially commissioned by God as "the" only translation for all English-speaking people, and all the other sorts of myths the KJVO class 4 and 5 crowd teach.

 

[Phillip]

Originally posted by KJVBibleThumper:
Just out of curiosity, to all of you anti-KJV people out there I want to pose a question. Dont dodge, or evade just straight out tell me the answer without any ands, buts, nors, or fors.
We know that in Ephesians 6 it lists our spiritual armor, the only offensive thing on there is the "sword of the Spirit" that is the "word of God" if we do not have the perfect, inerrent, infallible Word of God that we can hold in our hands and proclaim from the pulpits as most of you claim then we DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO ATTACK WITH!!
We are in the positin of a man that has a butter knife as his only offensive weapon!! I personally think that God would have given us a sword dont you?
In Christ,
KJVBibleThumper

You make two false assumptions: Number one: we are NOT "ANTI-KJV". That is a false statement made by KJVOs in an attempt to make people who use other translations look bad. There is NOTHING wrong with the use of the KJV, it is a great translation--assuming you can read 200 year old English.
Your second false assumption: is that the Bible is not inerrant. You can have inerrant Bibles in different languages. Inerrant means that all doctrines are intact and accurate. It does NOT mean that minor translational errors have crept into the translation. Why would the KJV have to keep being upgraded if it was perfect to start with. Perfect wording and inerrant do not mean the same thing in this particular context.

You could have two translators translate Josephus into English and neither translation would be identical, but they could be inerrant. The NASB is just as SHARP as the KJV, as proven in other threads, no doctrinal changes have occurred.

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by GeneMBridges:
Your buddy, Askjo, in fact, just this past week made the sweeping declaration that the NASB is not the Word of God.

Right! Look at Michelle's post to you concerning the NASB. She is right. The reason that I said that is that NASB contains the Word of God because of 4,000 infected words that God did not preserve.

MV's believe the KJV is God's Word, along with other translations like the NASB. We believe God has preserved His Word/s, but we do not limit God to one translation.

That is misleading and mis-information! When MVs and the KJV disagree each other a few thousand times, how would you say ALL translations are the Word of God? Why did the preserved and infected Words of God in ALL Bible translations disagree each other in ENGLISH language a few thousand times?

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by michelle:

Any christian should be attached to the scriptures. This is not cultish.

A cult by any other name is still the same.

I will do you a favor and do your homework for you and give you the definition.

cult (kult), n.
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociol. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7. the members of such a religion or sect.
8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by James Newman:
Is Homosexuality condemned in the bible?

The NIV changed from it to different words.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Askjo:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gb93433:
b]The King James Version Debate: A Plea for Realism by D. A. Carson

Dr. Strouse refuted him in his essay. [/b]</font>[/QUOTE]What is the name of the book or document? When you can produce something more than your opinion then I will consider the things you write. Is this the kind of training you had in high school? If so you should do better.

 

[Phillip]

Originally posted by gb93433:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by michelle:

Any christian should be attached to the scriptures. This is not cultish.

A cult by any other name is still the same.

I will do you a favor and do your homework for you and give you the definition.

cult (kult), n.
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5. Sociol. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6. a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7. the members of such a religion or sect.
8. any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific. </font>[/QUOTE]Very true GB. Notice also how she says: "scriptures" only, making it sound like she is only referring to the scriptures to make us look bad, when we know she is referring strictly to the KJV.

I sure wish we could stop twisting things to make people sound bad. I don't know anybody here that would disagree with holding onto the scriptures; but it becomes a "cult", by definition, if we think that "scriptures" ONLY refers to the KJV. IMHO.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Askjo:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by James Newman:
Is Homosexuality condemned in the bible?

The NIV changed from it to different words. </font>[/QUOTE]Where at? What verses? There are several NIV's. So which one?

 

[GeneMBridges]

Originally posted by Askjo:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GeneMBridges:
Your buddy, Askjo, in fact, just this past week made the sweeping declaration that the NASB is not the Word of God.

Right! Look at Michelle's post to you concerning the NASB. She is right. The reason that I said that is that NASB contains the Word of God because of 4,000 infected words that God did not preserve.

MV's believe the KJV is God's Word, along with other translations like the NASB. We believe God has preserved His Word/s, but we do not limit God to one translation.

That is misleading and mis-information! When MVs and the KJV disagree each other a few thousand times, how would you say ALL translations are the Word of God? Why did the preserved and infected Words of God in ALL Bible translations disagree each other in ENGLISH language a few thousand times? </font>[/QUOTE]How do you know which parts are the Word of God in the NASB and those which are not?

First: You assume a false teaching regarding Ps. 12, which we'll not go into here, because it is based on circular logic and has been exegeted properly multiple times.

Second: How do you know the KJB is 100 percent preserved and the NASB is not? Your answer is always to argue the premise. You simply assume that the KJB is the standard and any variances are therefore error. That's called begging the question. You want to discuss why circular logic and begging the question are ungodly again? I wouldn't go there if I were you.

Third: I believe you commented regarding changes in words, et.al regarding the NKJV something like this:

“Look at NKJV on James 5:16 saying, "confess your trespasses" instead of "confess your faults" in the KJV.
Faults are NOT the same as trespasses. "Confessing your trespasses" sounds like ROMAN CATHOLIC doctrine.”

Of course this shows exactly how ignorant you are because the word "fault" in the KJV is used to mean ('venial sins') (That's exactly how Church of England clergy would have interpreted the word "fault" in 1611), which is ALSO a RCC doctrine.

So as long as I confess my faults (“venial sins”) to someone, it is not the same as confessing my “trespasses” (“mortal sins”)? (Thanks to a very special friend who read that post of yours there and pointed that out; he know who he is).

Fourth: You neglect to acknowledge that the NASB and the KJV are in complete agreement over 99 percent of the time. You fail to acknowledge that many if not all the places where there is "disagreement" it is over word choice and those instances have corresponding entries in the footnotes/margins of both translations.

Show me a Scripture that says that the KJB is the only valid translation for the English language, Askjo.

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by Phillip:
Michelle, I would NEVER limit GOD's ability to do anything. I am limiting man's ability because God inspired the original writers. MAN translated the languages.

Phillip, you gave Michelle your FALSE answer to the Scipture. NOWHERE in the Bible said God INSPIRED the original writers! No Scripture, NOT ONE!

When we have multi-bible versions in English-speaking only, do you LIMIT God and invite the Satan to join with you?

 

[Phillip]

This thread reminds me of an actual argument that occurred when science was debated on this site and a "flat earth" person fought everybody that even satellites are fooled by the true flat earth.

There was no reasoning with this person. There is no reasoning with the few KJVO's here. They will twist things until their theory fits, regardless of how twisted they actually come.

 

[michelle]

--------------------------------------------------
Just out of curiosity, to all of you anti-KJV people out there I want to pose a question. Dont dodge, or evade just straight out tell me the answer without any ands, buts, nors, or fors.
We know that in Ephesians 6 it lists our spiritual armor, the only offensive thing on there is the "sword of the Spirit" that is the "word of God" if we do not have the perfect, inerrent, infallible Word of God that we can hold in our hands and proclaim from the pulpits as most of you claim then we DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO ATTACK WITH!!
We are in the positin of a man that has a butter knife as his only offensive weapon!! I personally think that God would have given us a sword dont you?
In Christ,
KJVBibleThumper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Amen!!! KJVThumper! This is the truth.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[michelle]

--------------------------------------------------
You make two false assumptions: Number one: we are NOT "ANTI-KJV". That is a false statement made by KJVOs in an attempt to make people who use other translations look bad. There is NOTHING wrong with the use of the KJV, it is a great translation--assuming you can read 200 year old English.
---------------------------------------------------

This is very easy for you all to say, yet YOU DON'T REALLY BELIEVE THIS.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by GeneMBridges:
There are a great many pro-gay theologians that actually DO use the KJV.

A gay empolyee notified me that MOST homosexuals favor the NIV instead of the KJV. How much did they believe the Bible? 100% or 50% or 35% or whatsoever? If any of them dislike some words in the Bible, they do not believe in the WHOLE Bible.

 

[GeneMBridges]

2nd Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

You're right, they were "carried along," and through them "God breathed" (inspired) the Scriptures. It is WELL within the bounds of orthodoxy to say that the writers were inspired if one defines that as being carried away, as with the breath of God. Why? Because Jesus uses the analogy of wind to talk about the Spirit of God. "The Spirit of God is depicted as an invisible enabling agent." (Thomas C. Oden, The Spirit of Life p.41). Ruach is the outbreathing, the proceeding, the going forth of the life of God (Athanasius LCHS 1.15 -19)

 

[Ed Edwards]

KJVBibleThumper: "We know that in Ephesians 6 it lists our spiritual armor, the only offensive thing on there is the "sword of the Spirit" that is the "word of God" if we do not have the perfect, inerrent, infallible Word of God that we can hold in our hands and proclaim from the pulpits as most of you claim then we DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO ATTACK WITH!!"

The Shield of Faith is an offensive weapon.

I have the perfect, inerrent, infallible
Word of God in my hands: the Holman Christian
Standard Bible (HCSB):

Ephesians 6:10-18 (HCSB):
Finally, be strengthened by the Lord and by His vast strength. 11 Put on the full armor of God so that you can stand against the tactics of the Devil. 12 For our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the world powers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens. 13 This is why you must take up the full armor of God, so that you may be able to resist in the evil day, and having prepared everything, to take your stand. 14 Stand, therefore, with truth like a belt around your waist, righteousness like armor on your chest, 15 and your feet sandaled with the readiness of the gospel of peace. 16 In every situation take the shield of faith, and with it you will be able to extinguish the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is God's word. 18 With every prayer and request, pray at all times in the Spirit, and stay alert in this, with all perseverance and intercession for all the saints.

 

[Askjo]

Originally posted by michelle:
--------------------------------------------------
KJVOnlyists say that God has preserved His Word/s in the KJV ONLY.
--------------------------------------------------


This statement shows where and why you and many err and false accuse others, and have absolutely NO UNDERSTANDING of our belief. It is because you choose to blindly believe and follow mens opinions and fight only the labels, rather than looking at the truth being shared with you.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

Amen!

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by michelle:


This is very easy for you all to say, yet YOU DON'T REALLY BELIEVE THIS.

You have such insight into people and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart! Are you the lady described in 1 Sam 28:7, "Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor."?

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Askjo:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GeneMBridges:
There are a great many pro-gay theologians that actually DO use the KJV.

A gay empolyee notified me that MOST homosexuals favor the NIV instead of the KJV. How much did they believe the Bible? 100% or 50% or 35% or whatsoever? If any of them dislike some words in the Bible, they do not believe in the WHOLE Bible. </font>[/QUOTE]You base your opinion upon what one person says? What research! That one person speaks for all the homosexuals and lesbians across the U.S.?

 

[michelle]

---------------------------------------------------
You have such insight into people and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart! Are you the lady described in 1 Sam 28:7, "Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor."?
--------------------------------------------------


The words of your own opinions and beliefs in your posts make this OBVIOUS. I do not need to read into anyones heart, to which only God can do. You do an excellent job of expressing this yourself. As the Lord says:

Matthew 15

12. Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
13. But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
14. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
15. Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
16. And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17. Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18. But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20. These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle