glazer1972
Member
Pre-Tribulation Rapture is taught in our church. Many of our members hold to this belief.
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Is the belief In the rapture Of Church Strongly held Still In Baptist circles?
- Thread starter JesusFan
- Start date
Luke 17:34-37
34I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
Sounds pretty pre-trib to me ...:godisgood:
34I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
Sounds pretty pre-trib to me ...:godisgood:
oops.....
The ones who were taken.....were taken in judgement;
might need to re-think this one:thumbsup:
Tom Butler
New Member
Posted by Baptist Believer:
If you're talking about a pre-tribulation rapture of the church, that y belief has only been held (by some) for less than 200 years.
Just curious, where in I & II Thessalonians teach a pre-tribulation rapture? I can't find it in I Thess 4:13-18. It tells of a rapture, but not when.
I Thess 5 talks about the Day of the Lord coming as a thief in the night. I've always been taught that that is post-tribulational.
If you're talking about a pre-tribulation rapture of the church, that y belief has only been held (by some) for less than 200 years.
Wow, 1 and 2 Thessalonians are that recent?!?
Just curious, where in I & II Thessalonians teach a pre-tribulation rapture? I can't find it in I Thess 4:13-18. It tells of a rapture, but not when.
I Thess 5 talks about the Day of the Lord coming as a thief in the night. I've always been taught that that is post-tribulational.
This post does not make sense.Baptists hold to each of the positions.There are baptists who hold any and all combinations of the above mentioned truths.
The rapture happens on the last day.
I once taught a 12 week study on end-time theology. I spent the first two weeks on proper Biblical interpretation & the next 9 on each of the major views of the rapture/millennial views. I taught each view as though I believed it with the supporting Scripture & didn't tell them what I believed until the final week. There were 18-20 persons in that class & when we were finished, only one person still held to a pretrib rapture. They admitted to never actually studying end-time theology before that time & that Scripture was not entirely clear as to how these events will unfold. It's amazing what happens when we teach people how to study instead of what to think!
ummm where did you get 39 and so on..luke 17 only goes to verse 37..lol... i read it pretty clear..
27They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32Remember Lot's wife.
33Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
also the 2nd thess verse i think webdog may be referring to might include this..
2 Thessalonians 2:7-12 (King James Version)
7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
what about this verse? How would you post trib's interpret it..
Luke 21:34 “But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. 35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”
Luke 21:34 “But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. 35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”
Hello Brother,
Yes...you did read it clear,and are correct....in Luke...
but if you look at the parallel passage in mt 24 you will see the verses I quoted for you!:thumbs:
mamac....I was also taught the pre-mill teaching first.I was taught that it was correct,and all others were wrong. Then I had a brother challenge me on this...looked into it ,and looked into some other ways Christians have understood the same verses
In luke it says,until the flood came and destroyed them all
In Mt24 it says,until the flood came and "took them away"
Do you see it? I was taught that the one taken was the rapture,and yet in mt 24 it is just the opposite. I had to search it out more.
Most of the puritans had a post mill understanding...many of the reformers were amill...
mamac.....all believers look for the blessed hope. We serve the Lord now, and diligently pursue Holiness now. We seek to win the lost with the truth of the perfect sacrifice of the cross.
As long as you believe in the return of the Lord....do not be afraid to look at the other views. Those christians who held those views were godly men also.
As with all truth...it belongs to God.There is only one truth ,and we all struggle to search it out. No one man has it here on earth, but even that is by God's design.
I can still teach the pre-mill view..accurately if I had to...but I do not believe it is the most accurate..
When I see others post some of the teaching, I wonder if anyone has questioned them as I was questioned years ago by another brother.
Be encouraged...we win in Jesus:thumbs: no matter which calendar of end-times we follow...but search it out...
Actually Tom, as I have shown at various times, it goes much further back than 200 years, as it has been seen as far back, by some, to the 1500's. It has only been a mainline view for 200 or so years and it is only slightly younger (as a mainline view) than Covenant Theology.
Here is what I recently posted on this subject in another thread over on page 2
And in answer to the OP.. Yes, it is still held strongly or better is the largely predominant view among Baptists, and sees to be gaining some steam among Cals as well (qualifier - at least those I know and their discussions of others they know)
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But he's talking about the flood of noah..i see it basically saying the Lord is going to destroy them all just like he destroyed everyone during Noah's time and also states that with Sodom n gomora.. and just like He saved Lot and his family before destroying them (with the exception of his wife of course), I believe he is going to save/remove all believers in Christ..
I think thats why it clearly says
34I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
...Why would it talk about leaving 1 while the other gets taken if we are all going to get wiped out together? It makes no sense
(and yes..ultimately we're all going to heaven that are saved..but from my readings of the bible..it's very clear)
Tom Butler
New Member
I promise myself I'm going to stay out of these eschatology threads, but I get sucked in.
I am going to try to stay out of the discussion over how long the pre-trib view has been around. But webdog said the magic words when he cited I & II Thessalonians as sources of pre-trib passages. I can't resist asking where such passages are in those letters.
I know we're not arguing about the pre-trib view, just how long it's been around.. But I'm like Pavlov's dog. Touch the right button and I'm hooked.
I am going to try to stay out of the discussion over how long the pre-trib view has been around. But webdog said the magic words when he cited I & II Thessalonians as sources of pre-trib passages. I can't resist asking where such passages are in those letters.
I know we're not arguing about the pre-trib view, just how long it's been around.. But I'm like Pavlov's dog. Touch the right button and I'm hooked.
Understood. The 'pre-trib rapture' view is fairly new to the scene and as such is one of the stronger arguments against a post trib view. Not because it is newer but that the post trib view was the original view taught on the rapture, which took place after the great Tribulation but prior to the literal Millennial reign in Christ in Jerusalem, From the Kingdom of Israel. However my main point was that the pre-trib view did not originate 200 years ago as we see it in other writers nearly 500 years ago.
My question has been do you want to be taken as those in the days of Noah or do you want to be left behind? Just maybe Bro, Tim has it backward.
DiamondLady
New Member
Here's my thoughts on this subject.....I believe in a pre-rapture tribulation. Whether or not you do is up to you. You want to stay here and suffer through the seals, bowls, and trumpets it's up to you. I plan on being at the marriage supper of the Lamb while you're down here suffering.
Oh, and for those whose churches don't teach Revelation, and all the surrounding events, times, scriptures....come to our church. We're doing a series right now on Revelation Revealed. It's verrrrrry interesting. Tomorrow's message is "A Word For Every Church."
Oh, and for those whose churches don't teach Revelation, and all the surrounding events, times, scriptures....come to our church. We're doing a series right now on Revelation Revealed. It's verrrrrry interesting. Tomorrow's message is "A Word For Every Church."
Here's my thoughts on this subject.....I believe in a pre-rapture tribulation. Whether or not you do is up to you. You want to stay here and suffer through the seals, bowls, and trumpets it's up to you. I plan on being at the marriage supper of the Lamb while you're down here suffering.
Oh, and for those whose churches don't teach Revelation, and all the surrounding events, times, scriptures....come to our church. We're doing a series right now on Revelation Revealed. It's verrrrrry interesting. Tomorrow's message is "A Word For Every Church."
Lol DiamondLady.. you just made me laugh with what you said.. "you want to stay here and suffer, i'll be at the marriage supper of the Lamb" hahahahahahaha...awesome..
We're in Rev too for mid week bible study!
Yeah, me too; I just hope they don't get in too much of a hurry and go sprouting wings and flying off to the wrong guy. :smilewinkgrin:
Mar 13:20-23
(20)And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
(21)And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, hereisChrist; or, lo,he isthere; believehimnot:
(22)For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, ifit werepossible, even the elect.
(23)But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
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mamac
Some views have the rapture as the last day...those who are alive and remain
will be changed in the blink of an eye.
Remember in Noahs day.....Noah survives in the ark,and comes out, in effect to a new heaven and new earth[in type] those taken in judgement do not.
We survive the judgement[In the Ark , Christ Jesus} he is our propitiation, our passover, we will be in the eternal state.
Make a list of questions....I will help if I can. I myself am in between views, but I have found this premill idea to be very defective.
Some views have the rapture as the last day...those who are alive and remain
will be changed in the blink of an eye.
Remember in Noahs day.....Noah survives in the ark,and comes out, in effect to a new heaven and new earth[in type] those taken in judgement do not.
We survive the judgement[In the Ark , Christ Jesus} he is our propitiation, our passover, we will be in the eternal state.
Make a list of questions....I will help if I can. I myself am in between views, but I have found this premill idea to be very defective.
Puritans? Reformers?
Ever hear of Hanserd Knollys or Benjamin Keach?
Here is what these two most prominent signers of the 1689 LBC taught:
Hanserd Knollys, The World that Now Is and the World that Is to Come:
"This is the first Resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first Resurrection. They shall reign with Christ a thousand years, and that on Earth, Rev. 5. 9, 10. . . . . After the Saints are raised, and have lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years, shall be the general Resurrection, Rev. 20. 12, 13."
Benjamin Keach's catechism:
"Question: How then shall it go with the saints?
Answer: Oh very well! it is the Day that they have long'd for: then they shall hear that Sentence, Come ye blessed of my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you: And so shall they reign with Christ on the Earth a thousand Years"