• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Is the Bible compatible with the theory of evolution?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Jordan Kurecki

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

No.

1. Assumptions are behind all dating methods. There is no guarantee that something has not tampered the "clocks" of nature such as the Genesis flood.we must understand that all set dating methods have a set of assumptions. If we wish to remain scientific, in order to have an accurate dating method we must observe, check, and measure that dating method throughout time. For example, a scientist must necessarily observe and measure radioactive decay throughout time if he were to trust this method. Since the speed of light is the basis for radioactive decay we would need measurements to show that the speed has always been constant. Since man does not have this capacity, he should understand that that his dating methods contain assumptions, assumptions that he believes by faith.

I mean we could play that game too though if you want:

The earth's age, on the basis of it's helium formations (from the decay of radioactive elements supposedly operating over billions of years) is about 10,000 years. There is not enough Helium to support an earth 4.5 billion years old.

We could go back and forth with this all day but the point is all dating methods are based on assumptions.

2.I am opposed to how scientists interpret Geologic data in regards to the fossil record: The so-called historical geology has not changed or developed since days when it's basic philosophical structure was first worked out by such non geologists as Charles Lyell (a lawyer), William Smith (a surveyor), James Hutton (an agriculturalist), John Playfair (a Mathematician), George Cuvier (A comparative anatomist) and Charles Darwin (an apostate divinity student) and various theologians (Bruckland, Flemming, Pye Smith, and Sedgewick). Please not that historical geology and the geologic timetable are the philosophical products of ten men who were not geologists.

In fact there is no place on earth that all the "time periods" are observed in the order they appear on the geologic time table. For example the Grand Canyon, which contains the most exposed strata in the world, has 8 period missing (Supposedly 345 million years missing).

Man has never observed the rock formation that the timetable proposes and this time table exists only in textbooks and in the minds of men.

The "scientists" who arranged the "time periods" did so in ascending order because they assumed all life evolved from simple to more complex.

On June 1, 1968 William Meister of Kearns, Utah found a human sandal print with a squashed trilobite in the heel, He was looking for fossils in the "Cambrian Wheeler shale formations, a formation supposedly 600 million years old. Dr. H.H. Doelling of Utah's Geological Survey verified that it was not a fake. Here we have an intelligent man able to make shoes, crushing a trilobite in a soft "Cambrian" rock layer.

The Cambrian explosion is a myth.

Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

1Ti_6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
 

Winman

Active Member
Jordan said:
The Cambrian explosion is a myth.

I don't know where you heard this. The Cambrian Explosion is actually great evidence for creation. It shows life appearing abruptly or instantly, just as the Bible says.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Van,
Sin entered the world through Adam, and we know that sin brings death.There was no sin in the world and thus no death until Adam brought sin into the world...I posted verses that say this.Also note that the the first recorded instance we have a of an animal dying in the bible is a direct result of man's sin.

Just like Jesus had to die for our sins, so throughout the O.T. does God show us that animals were being slain for our sins.

Evolution is not compatible with the bible!

Did physical death or spiritual death enter by sin? Why evade the question?

Did the plants Adam and Eve ate die before the Fall. Why evade the question. Your dogmatic assertion needs to address Genesis 1:29. The only way to look at this issue, when did death occur is to accept death at least of plants consumed occurred before the fall. That means all those verses you cited must refer to spiritual death brought about by sin.

It is a lock.
 

Winman

Active Member
Did physical death or spiritual death enter by sin? Why evade the question?

Did the plants Adam and Eve ate die before the Fall. Why evade the question. Your dogmatic assertion needs to address Genesis 1:29. The only way to look at this issue, when did death occur is to accept death at least of plants consumed occurred before the fall. That means all those verses you cited must refer to spiritual death brought about by sin.

It is a lock.

I tend to believe it was speaking of spiritual death. When Adam and Eve sinned they both died spiritually.

And the reason they died is because they now had the knowledge of good and evil.

Gen3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The reason Adam and Eve spiritually died is because now they understood between good and evil. They now understood they had sinned against God and were convicted.

That is why babies are not born dead in sin, because they do not understand between good and evil.

Deu 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

It is not a sin to know between good and evil, God knows this, but it makes one accountable when they know between good and evil.

This is why Paul said he was alive without the law once, but when the commandment came, sin revived, and he died (Rom 7:9). Paul was speaking of learning the law as a young Jewish man. When he learned the law he became accountable and spiritually died.
 

Jordan Kurecki

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Did physical death or spiritual death enter by sin? Why evade the question?

Did the plants Adam and Eve ate die before the Fall. Why evade the question. Your dogmatic assertion needs to address Genesis 1:29. The only way to look at this issue, when did death occur is to accept death at least of plants consumed occurred before the fall. That means all those verses you cited must refer to spiritual death brought about by sin.

It is a lock.

I believe both did, I believe spiritual death was immediate and the physical came later.

Does it say Adam and Eve ate the actual plants or did they eat the fruit/things produced by the plants?
 

Winman

Active Member
I believe both did, I believe spiritual death was immediate and the physical came later.

Does it say Adam and Eve ate the actual plants or did they eat the fruit/things produced by the plants?

Actually, their sin did not cause physical death. They could have eaten of the tree of life and lived forever as sinners;

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The moment Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit they spiritually died, and so God had to sacrifice an animal for them to be reconciled to him, a figure of Christ.

Their sin did not cause physical death, at least not directly. God forced them out of the garden and prevented them from eating of the tree of life, and this is why men and animals physically die.

This is why folks misunderstand Romans 5, it is speaking of spiritual death not physical.
 

Havensdad

New Member
If the "Biologos" folks desire the believers to move away from Biblical inerrancy, it would generally place them as a group as presenting a faulty view.

Heretical isn't a word that I would use at this time.

There are many who hold that certain documents or even copies of the original are not complete or have problems - such is a discussion for a different part of the BB forums.

I mention it here just to show that disagreement as far as what is valid or not in relation to Scripture rendering is far from heretical. Unfortunately, there are few who are true scientists and at the same time theologians. Often the strength of one is not the strength of the other, and one must rely upon the findings of the other.

In my opinion, it is important that folks not think that the whole of the "Biologos" movement is something that should be embraced. There are issues within it that may or may not be true to Scriptures.

Discernment is ever the watchword with any matter concerning the believer.

Joh_14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.



Rev_3:8 "'I know your works. Behold, I have set before you an open door, which no one is able to shut. I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name.


Evolution directly contradicts the Word of God. A person who denies the Word of God, is not saved. "Faith" means something. It is not "faith" in yourself, or "faith" in some nebulous concept of God, conjured up in one's own imagination.
"Faith" is faith in Christ, as revealed in the Scriptures. Since Christ said the whole book (or all 66 books) is about Him, denying the Bible or part of the Bible, equates to a lack of faith. God's Word is not something to be parceled out, and split asunder. It is a unified whole.
 

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
For one, the scriptural record stated that Adam would die on the day he partook of disobedience.....he did not.
Then why did God shed the blood of an animal?

Scripture does not speak to the age of the earth, science speaks pretty loud and clear. The earth is quite old, and life has been a big part of earth, particularly since the "cambrian explosion" of life.
That the earth is "quite old" is debatable! As far as I know all dating methods assume an old earth! As for the "Cambrian Explosion" my first thought was that the worldwide flood could well explain the abundance of fossils.

It is my conviction that the scriptural record of the creation narrative is not meant to be a scientific journal, rather a simplistic statement of theological significance that it was God (YHWH) who is responsible for that is, not some other god of the caananite world.
It is not a scientific journal but it is true. Scripture says God spoke and it was. He did not have to shuffle His feet [speaking anthropomorphically] before deciding the next evolutionary step.
 

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
Actually, their sin did not cause physical death. They could have eaten of the tree of life and lived forever as sinners;

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The moment Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit they spiritually died, and so God had to sacrifice an animal for them to be reconciled to him, a figure of Christ.

Their sin did not cause physical death, at least not directly. God forced them out of the garden and prevented them from eating of the tree of life, and this is why men and animals physically die.

This is why folks misunderstand Romans 5, it is speaking of spiritual death not physical.

Winman, I am very pleased to see you confessing that the unsaved man is spiritually dead!
 

quantumfaith

Active Member
No.

1. Assumptions are behind all dating methods. There is no guarantee that something has not tampered the "clocks" of nature such as the Genesis flood.we must understand that all set dating methods have a set of assumptions. If we wish to remain scientific, in order to have an accurate dating method we must observe, check, and measure that dating method throughout time. For example, a scientist must necessarily observe and measure radioactive decay throughout time if he were to trust this method. Since the speed of light is the basis for radioactive decay we would need measurements to show that the speed has always been constant. Since man does not have this capacity, he should understand that that his dating methods contain assumptions, assumptions that he believes by faith.

I mean we could play that game too though if you want:

The earth's age, on the basis of it's helium formations (from the decay of radioactive elements supposedly operating over billions of years) is about 10,000 years. There is not enough Helium to support an earth 4.5 billion years old.

We could go back and forth with this all day but the point is all dating methods are based on assumptions.

2.I am opposed to how scientists interpret Geologic data in regards to the fossil record: The so-called historical geology has not changed or developed since days when it's basic philosophical structure was first worked out by such non geologists as Charles Lyell (a lawyer), William Smith (a surveyor), James Hutton (an agriculturalist), John Playfair (a Mathematician), George Cuvier (A comparative anatomist) and Charles Darwin (an apostate divinity student) and various theologians (Bruckland, Flemming, Pye Smith, and Sedgewick). Please not that historical geology and the geologic timetable are the philosophical products of ten men who were not geologists.

In fact there is no place on earth that all the "time periods" are observed in the order they appear on the geologic time table. For example the Grand Canyon, which contains the most exposed strata in the world, has 8 period missing (Supposedly 345 million years missing).

Man has never observed the rock formation that the timetable proposes and this time table exists only in textbooks and in the minds of men.

The "scientists" who arranged the "time periods" did so in ascending order because they assumed all life evolved from simple to more complex.

On June 1, 1968 William Meister of Kearns, Utah found a human sandal print with a squashed trilobite in the heel, He was looking for fossils in the "Cambrian Wheeler shale formations, a formation supposedly 600 million years old. Dr. H.H. Doelling of Utah's Geological Survey verified that it was not a fake. Here we have an intelligent man able to make shoes, crushing a trilobite in a soft "Cambrian" rock layer.

The Cambrian explosion is a myth.

Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

1Ti_6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

Assumptions are at the foundation of all science, mathematics and logic
Assumptions are also at the foundation of any FAITH.
 

Jordan Kurecki

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Then why did God shed the blood of an animal?


That the earth is "quite old" is debatable! As far as I know all dating methods assume an old earth! As for the "Cambrian Explosion" my first thought was that the worldwide flood could well explain the abundance of fossils.


It is not a scientific journal but it is true. Scripture says God spoke and it was. He did not have to shuffle His feet [speaking anthropomorphically] before deciding the next evolutionary step.

Amen.:thumbs:
 

Jordan Kurecki

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Assumptions are at the foundation of all science, mathematics and logic
Assumptions are also at the foundation of any FAITH.
Science is something that is testable and observable.

the age of the earth is not testable.

Are these statements suppose to make me think that the earth is old?

lol.
 

quantumfaith

Active Member
Joh_14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.



Rev_3:8 "'I know your works. Behold, I have set before you an open door, which no one is able to shut. I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name.


Evolution directly contradicts the Word of God. A person who denies the Word of God, is not saved. "Faith" means something. It is not "faith" in yourself, or "faith" in some nebulous concept of God, conjured up in one's own imagination.
"Faith" is faith in Christ, as revealed in the Scriptures. Since Christ said the whole book (or all 66 books) is about Him, denying the Bible or part of the Bible, equates to a lack of faith. God's Word is not something to be parceled out, and split asunder. It is a unified whole.

I will only caution you once about this.
 

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I believe theistic evolution is heresy but that does not make them unsaved. Claiming those who hold to theistic evolution are not saved is unnecessary and goes to far.
 

Winman

Active Member
I believe the earth is young because the scriptures say so. They say God created the heavens and earth in six days.

If God wanted us to believe the heavens and earth were created over a long period, then why couldn't he simply say so?

Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

The scriptures tell us Adam lived 930 years. God did not have any trouble telling us Adam lived almost a thousand years, so why couldn't God tell us he took billions of years to create the universe?

A person has to believe that God is incapable of properly expressing himself to believe the scriptures teach an old age for the earth. I find that ridiculous.
 

quantumfaith

Active Member
Then why did God shed the blood of an animal?


That the earth is "quite old" is debatable! As far as I know all dating methods assume an old earth! As for the "Cambrian Explosion" my first thought was that the worldwide flood could well explain the abundance of fossils.


It is not a scientific journal but it is true. Scripture says God spoke and it was. He did not have to shuffle His feet [speaking anthropomorphically] before deciding the next evolutionary step.

1. I do not understand your point
2. I think for most, other than YEC, the age of the earth as being quite old is reasonably settled and the methods for measurement utilize solid methods and mathematics. I realize that there are some "outlier" arguments such as the "c-decay" conjecture, but such are not recognized by large numbers of physicists and mathematicians
3. I do agree with you on the truth of God's Word, our "problem" is our understanding and interpretations of it (Pregnant with meaning)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top