-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
is the bible the Sole or the Final Authority regarding Doctrines/practices?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
For faith and practice it is the ONLY authority. If we are talking about non-Biblical matters than non-Biblical authorities apply appropriately.
The issue is rathe simple. Is God's Word final or is man's word final in regard to faith and practice? It is that simple. Rome believes man's word is final and that God's word must be subjected to man.
We believe that our interpretations of God's Word are ALWAYS subject to God's Word and only confirmation by God's Word approves the interpetation as valid - period. We do not beieve that God's Word is subject to our interpretations but are interpretations are always subject to scrutiny by God's Word - Our interpretations are only valid as they conform to God's Word not vice versa. Valid Biblical tests determine that. False interpretations ALWAYS fail these tests and it is manifested when the interpreter is forced to flee to some other authority to validate his interpretation (tradition, unsubstantiated personal opinion, etc.).
Last edited by a moderator:
is thaqt why ALL cultic groups HAVE to use extra biblical sources as authority for bad doctrines? Not in the bible, so create up their own to add to that?
Just try to follow the irrational thinking of TS in the other thread. There can be no response to that kind of irrational kind of thinking. He is indeed his own final authority as he rejects both what the scriptuers literally state and any kind of common sense approach to dealing with what they say.
Rome and its adherents are really the ones who are their OWN FINAL AUTHORITY and their attempts at interpreting the scriptures make it very obvious that neither God's Word nor the Holy Spirit directs their thinking.
They offer either irrational confusion or twisted tradition as their final authority.
>is the bible the Sole or the Final Authority regarding Doctrines/practices?
The question is a red herring designed to stir the pot, not a request for information. I should know! <G>
It is a red herring because, like the U.S. Constitution, the argument is very seldom about the definition of the words but about the context and interpretation/application of statements.
The question is a red herring designed to stir the pot, not a request for information. I should know! <G>
It is a red herring because, like the U.S. Constitution, the argument is very seldom about the definition of the words but about the context and interpretation/application of statements.
The Scriptures claim to sufficiently provide everything necessary to the man of God for doctrine, correction, instruction, reproof in regard to faith and practice - 2 Tim. 3:16-17.
The Scriptures claim to be final in regard to judging the truth of what any man says concerning Biblical matters - Isa. 8:20.
The Bible provides all the contextual data for doctrine and practice. No person's interpretation is final authority. The value of any interpretation of scripture is determined by how it conforms to the Biblical data. False interpretations ALWAYS contradict and/or will not harmonize with all contextual data. Hence, the Bible is the final abritrar of a right and wrong interpretation.
since the Bible ONLY claims and can provide to be a divine revealtion from God....
Why would other sources need to be cited and used, ESPECIALLY iftheey contridict the bible?
>The Scriptures claim to sufficiently provide everything necessary to the man of God for doctrine, correction, instruction, reproof in regard to faith and practice - 2 Tim. 3:16-17.
YES, but there is no universal agreement as to what THAT means. <G>
Anyway,
Deuteronomy 12:32-13:5
King James Version (KJV)
32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
13 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
4 Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.
This passage is God CLEARLY closing the canon and thus NO subsequent scripture may contradict Torah and doesn't contradict Torah if correctly interpreted and this includes the NT.
This command by God to close the Canon was ignored by the Pharisees who taught the Prophets and Writings were Torah and was also ignored by Paul's gentile Christians. After 70 AD the Pharisees took control of Judaism and morphed into our modern day rabbis AND Paul's gentiles took control of Christianity and morphed into the Orthodox Catholic Church.
The very words of this passage seem very clear to me and it boggles my mind how Jews and Christians can ignore and pervert them for their own use (command and control . . . power and money). An honest reading of Matthew teaches that Jesus intended for the Church, his followers to reform rabbinical Judaism from the inside and that the Jerusalem Council interpreted Jesus' teaching in this way.
YES, but there is no universal agreement as to what THAT means. <G>
Anyway,
Deuteronomy 12:32-13:5
King James Version (KJV)
32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
13 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
4 Ye shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.
This passage is God CLEARLY closing the canon and thus NO subsequent scripture may contradict Torah and doesn't contradict Torah if correctly interpreted and this includes the NT.
This command by God to close the Canon was ignored by the Pharisees who taught the Prophets and Writings were Torah and was also ignored by Paul's gentile Christians. After 70 AD the Pharisees took control of Judaism and morphed into our modern day rabbis AND Paul's gentiles took control of Christianity and morphed into the Orthodox Catholic Church.
The very words of this passage seem very clear to me and it boggles my mind how Jews and Christians can ignore and pervert them for their own use (command and control . . . power and money). An honest reading of Matthew teaches that Jesus intended for the Church, his followers to reform rabbinical Judaism from the inside and that the Jerusalem Council interpreted Jesus' teaching in this way.
actually, Moses foretold that there would arise a "prophe like unto himself', and that was jesus, who was prophet/priest/king!
Also, paul did NOT hijack Christianity, for he was the Apsotle that Jesus gave the honor of having the fulness of the revelation of the Grace of God!
christianity NOT meant to reform judaism of the time, as it was broken/corrupted, as the teachers and rabbis of the law already made it wrong, so jesus HAD to have new Covenant and Christianity replace it, as new wine not able to get poure dinto old wineskins!
Do you realize that Satan and tares permeate the professed kingdom of God on earth and you really believe there can be "universal agreement" on ANYTHING the Bible teaches, no matter how clear it is??????????? Come on Bill you are brighter than that!
Bill, the text says one thing and your interpretation says quite another thing!
Take note of the singular "thing" in verse 32. He is simply saying on any given "thing" he has spoken you cannot alter it by taking away from that "thing" or adding to that "thing." He is not denying that there will come additional revelation, scripture as he goes right on to give the tests of a prophet in order to judge the validity of further revelation/scripture. Indeed, he demands that another prophet will arise similar to Moses and therefore with that prophet will come revelation as well.
>Do you realize that Satan and tares . . . .
Agree! Every human activity is contaminated by sin. If this is admitted then why do you all go round and round repeating the same two opposing opinions for 15 or 20 pages? Because everyone of you must have the last word. I prefer to give my OPINION once and be done with it so you all call me a troll (upon occasion).
> He is not denying that there will come additional revelation, scripture as he goes right on to give the tests of a prophet in order to judge the validity of further revelation/scripture.
TRUE! "Canon" means measuring rod. Torah is the measuring rod by which future prophecy is judged. This includes NT prophecy. Would Jesus/God contradict his OT canon in the NT?
Agree! Every human activity is contaminated by sin. If this is admitted then why do you all go round and round repeating the same two opposing opinions for 15 or 20 pages? Because everyone of you must have the last word. I prefer to give my OPINION once and be done with it so you all call me a troll (upon occasion).
> He is not denying that there will come additional revelation, scripture as he goes right on to give the tests of a prophet in order to judge the validity of further revelation/scripture.
TRUE! "Canon" means measuring rod. Torah is the measuring rod by which future prophecy is judged. This includes NT prophecy. Would Jesus/God contradict his OT canon in the NT?
I agree! All future revelation that claimed to be scripture had to measure up to the tests set forth in previous confirmed scriptures. Isaiah repeats that in Isaiah 8:20 in the context of prophecy about the completion of the Biblical canon among the Lord's Apostles (Isa. 8:16-18).
actually Jesus Himself is the measuring Rod that ALL things pass through, for he was/is God incarnate, the Living Word!
Torah JUST as inpsired as all other canon Books, no more/less!
Jesus/God in Deut. taught that Torah is the rule for judging and analyzing future people who claim to speak for God. Jesus never contradicted God. Jesus taught that "Moses and the Prophets" were sufficient for salvation and even more powerful than someone returning from the dead.
I completely agree with this analysis.
convicted1
Guest
Is there really another authority, Brother?