Is the carnal christian a heresy? Or does he exist?

[xdisciplex]

Okay, but what do you do if you start at Genesis and already at the beginning notice that you don't understand everything? I mean if you already do not understand things at the beginning then is it wise to simply read on? For example if I want to learn mathematics and do not understand how I calculate 1+1 then I also cannot move on to multiplication or other things.

 

[Hope of Glory]

I have mixed feelings on this subject. I agree with JJump that the foundation is the most important part, but as you say, sometimes Genesis is confusing or even it seems boring.

So, what I recommend in most cases is that you begin in Matthew and then go back and read Genesis. Continue doing this using the cross-references.

If you're so inclined, there is a book called "Synopsis of the Four Gospels" that puts the four gospels in parallel form so that you can keep them all straight. Sort of a chronological reading. (In our adult Sunday school class has been, we have been working on a similar series of studies for the last couple of years.)

The reason that I have mixed feelings is as I stated. But, although the foundation is necessary for a sturdy "building", I can use the house in which I now live as an example: The foundation can be added later. This house used typical Alaskan construction: It started out as a one room cabin with a loft. Then, the arctic entry was added. Then, a few years later, a crane lifted up the entire thing and a foundation was added. Then, a few years later, the back half of the house was added. The foundation is necessary, but can be added later. (I also have a fear that a new Christian will begin at the beginning and then set out to start the animal sacrifices, but that's another story.)

Get some non-denominational commentaries (on the text itself) and use those cross-references. If you want some, drop me a PM. I'm a Baptist, but I use no Baptist literature. But, my studies have shown me that the Bible most closely aligns with the Baptist church to which I currently belong, as well as some in the past. (Of course, "Baptist" is a wide array of beliefs, and there are many Baptist churches that are quite scripturally unsound.)

 

[Blammo]

Okay, but what do you do if you start at Genesis and already at the beginning notice that you don't understand everything? I mean if you already do not understand things at the beginning then is it wise to simply read on? For example if I want to learn mathematics and do not understand how I calculate 1+1 then I also cannot move on to multiplication or other things.

I think the Bible has "1+1" all throughout it. Just as it has multiplication, long division, trig, and even more difficult matters all throughout it. You can't start with the "1+1"s and move on from there. I agree with J. Jump, you should start at the beginning and read on through. A new christian is going to come across a "1+1" here and there all through the Bible. He will also encounter some things that are more difficult, (meat). He needs to just continue on through, some things he will understand, some he won't. He should also pray for understanding. But, keep in mind, God will only help you understand what you are ready to understand. Every book in the Bible has "milk" and "meat". No book is a whole lot easier than another. So just read on through and "get what you can and can what you get".

 

[J. Jump]

That's the whole reason why God gave pastors and teachers. They are to aid you in your study. That's why people are supposed to be firmly grounded in Scripture so they can mentor/disciple younger Christians.

Now granted Christendom is in such bad shape that it makes it a lot harder, but that's the way God set things up, so you just have to ask Him to surround you with Godly teachers/disciplers. Ask Him for wisdom in discerning Truth from error.

Thankfully the Bible is not a 1-2-3 step to get to the end. You can read the Bible cover to cover 50 times and when you read it the 51st time there is still going to be something fresh and new to learn and when you read it the 101st time there is still going to be something fresh and new.

Don't expect all the answers to come as soon as you open the Book and start reading, but ask Him to reveal truth to you and then trust that He will do that at His pace.

 

[mima]

Because the Bible uses the term Carnal Christian, I believe that Carnal Christians exist. Now whether or not you accept their existence(including the name they're called by) all depends on what you believe about eternal security. Those who believe in eternal security should have no problem with their existence. However those who feel that you can be saved and loss ,saved and lost, must deny the existence of Carnal Christians because to them, by definition, carnal is synonymous with lost and therefore the term "carnal Christian" describes not a fleshly or back-slidden Christian but rather an unbeliever a non- christian.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Good point, Mima.

 

[xdisciplex]

How can a carnal christian be a non-christian? This makes no sense.

To me carnal simply means not being spiritual and I guess spiritual means being like Jesus.
For example when I become angry then this is carnal and not spiritual. But I don't know what to do against this. I mean this fight is simply always there. Does being spiritual mean that the flesh is no longer active? When can you say that you're spiritual and no longer carnal?

 

[DHK]

That is where Bible study comes in. There are some cases in which carnal refers to the unsaved, and there are some cases where the word carnal refers to the Christian that is living a worldly or ungodly life. Context is very important.
DHK

 

[xdisciplex]

Hmmm...
I thought that carnal is related to the flesh, for example when you're acting in the flesh then you are carnal. For example when you easily become angry then you're carnal. Is this wrong?
Because I easily become angry [] and while I'm aware of this problem I don't know what to do against it. It simply happens and then later on I think that next time I have to do it better but then it happens again.

 

[J. Jump]

Carnality is connected with the flesh. Those that are dead in trespasses and sin are only operating on that level. Once a person is saved it becomes a choice on whether to operate on that level or allow the Spirit to operate in and through you.

Being angry is not exactly walking in the flesh. The Bible says we are to be angry without sinning, so there is a point at which anger is not sinful, but there is a line that can be crossed into sin.

while I'm aware of this problem I don't know what to do against it.

That's why walking in the Spirit is a moment-by-moment thing. Look back on your life and assess the situations that make you angry and excessively angry. When you see these situations starting to come up that is when you IMMEDIATELY start to pray that you will die to self and let the Spirit respond to the situation instead of allowing yourself to react to the situation.

Of course this is a lot easier said than done, but the more you can recognize the situation and die to self the more the outcome can be better.

As long as you are relying on I have to do it better then failure will always follow, because I can only work corruption and only the Spirit can work that which be referred to as gold, silver and precious stones. Everything else is wood, hay and stubble.

 

[xdisciplex]

So you think the key is to pray in such a situation?
I thought that you must not even become angry as a christian. Hmmm...
For example if somebody totally angers me then all I have to do is pray and then everything will be fine and the anger has to leave? But what if it doesn't ?

 

[J. Jump]

Again the Bible says it is okay to get angry as long as we don't sin. So there is some anger that is okay.

If you do become angry and God makes that apparant to you then yes at that particular moment you need to repent and confess.

My suggestion was to go back to the instances that have made you angry to the point of sinning in the past and learn what caused you to get angry. Then when you see these things starting to happen pray that you will die to self and allow the Spirit to respond on your behalf before you get angry. Be proactive instead of reactive.

That will take time. Maybe a lot of time.

 

[Marcia]

So you think the key is to pray in such a situation?
I thought that you must not even become angry as a christian. Hmmm...
For example if somebody totally angers me then all I have to do is pray and then everything will be fine and the anger has to leave? But what if it doesn't ?

The key to overcoming anger or any other problem is to walk daily with the Lord in his word and in prayer. You soak your mind with the word of God and maybe memorize helpful scripture. God has given us the power of the Holy Spirit to resist sin -- we can't be sinless but we are no longer slaves to sin (Romans 6, 7, 8) but are slaves to righteousness. It's not a matter or reprogramming the mind or techniques -- you need to become sensitive to God's word and yield yourself up to the Lord by depending on Him.

If you truly love the Lord, you will want to overcome sin but you will also realize you cannot do this in your own strength. The Christian must learn to depend on Christ more and more each day. It's a walk of faith and grace, not works (though works result from our walk but it does not relate here).

 

[Hope of Glory]

I agree with what JJump said. Don't forget that Jesus got angry on occasion.

 

[Marcia]

I agree with what JJump said. Don't forget that Jesus got angry on occasion.

Jesus' anger was righteous anger. I am not sure any of us are capable of righteous anger.

It's not the anger that is the issue - it's the sin that results from it. The Bible says not to sin in your anger.

 

[xdisciplex]

But if somebody steals your parking lot and you become angry then isn't this a sin? What do you do if you simply become angry very easily? Do you already sin in the moment where you become angry and get vile thoughts? Is this already a sin?

 

[J. Jump]

But if somebody steals your parking lot and you become angry then isn't this a sin?

I think only you can answer this question. Does this drive you to curse the person under your breath? Does this cause you to curse the person out oud? Do you flip the person off?

I would say that if one of those three things happens you have probably sinned, but if it just frustrates you then I would say you probably haven't sinned.

If you wish ill on that person or are thinking ill thoughts about the person that is probably sin.

That's what I was talking about in a post above. If this is a situation that sets you off then you need to remember to immediately pray when this situation takes place. Put reminders up in your car. Whatever you need to do.

Even as I'm writing this the Lord is saying hey pal why don't you take some of your own advice It's a lot easier said than done, but the more we do it the easier it should become. And the more we do it the less often this type of situation should occur.

 

[xdisciplex]

In such situations I become angry in an instant and then I directly get angry thoughts and these thoughts are not better than what unsaved persons say or think when they're angry at another person.
I thought that as a christian you should not even get such thoughts. Jesus didn't get such thoughts and I bet that Paul also didn't get such thoughts. Shouldn't it be able to come so calm and meek that you don't even get such thoughts anymore and that nothing angers you anymore or is this illusional?

 

[J. Jump]

Unfortunately the sin nature will stay with you until you die. As long as you let the flesh rule those things will continue to happen. You have to die to your fleshly desire of anger during those types of situations. That's why recognition of the triggers is so important.

If you get angry becuase someone steals your parking spot, then make it a point that you aren't going to try to get the closest parking spot and just park out away from the building where no one wants to park anyway

But that doesn't mean that that situation won't every arise again, but you can know that if you are going somewhere where there aren't a lot of parking spots you can be in prayer as you go that you will die to flesh and not let it rule the situation.

The battle between your flesh and the Spirit will never go away until this body is dead. That's just the reality of where we are.

 

[xdisciplex]

So dying to the flesh means not doing what your flesh wants, right?
But does this mean that I can also die to myself if I'm hungry and I resist eating something? Is this the same? But then aren't buddhists or people which live in asceticism also dying to their flesh because they deny themselves things?