Is the Doctrine of Original Sin Biblical?

[Ben1445]

God was willing to wipe out pretty much all of humanity in the Flood

Not without 120 years of warning, which could have saved more had they accepted. I understand Scripture to say that they could have accepted and heeded warning. Instead they chose wrongly.

 

[Ben1445]

One is elect before the foundations of creation.

Scripture for this please?

 

[Ben1445]

Ben, If we read about men that are cast into the second death/lake of fire would it be safe to say that God does will that many of the world of the ungodly do perish? the flood of Noah's day seems to indicate that God was willing that many of mankind perished, do you agree. It looks as if two groups are spoken of...believer and unbeliever, agreed?

well glad we do agree on some things

Because God will judge does not mean that that was what He intended.
Jesus taught that a house divided cannot stand. God does not do as foolish man and say let us do evil that good may come.
God is not willing destruction. But He is just and will do right.

 

[JesusFan]

Not without 120 years of warning, which could have saved more had they accepted. I understand Scripture to say that they could have accepted and heeded warning. Instead they chose wrongly.

In same Fashion God permitted the Heathen and Pagans in the "Promised Land" to go evil and wicked some 400 years, before he sent Israel in there to "clean them up"

 

[JesusFan]

Because God will judge does not mean that that was what He intended.
Jesus taught that a house divided cannot stand. God does not do as foolish man and say let us do evil that good may come.
God is not willing destruction. But He is just and will do right.

God did not intend to save all lost sinner's by the Cross of Christ

 

[Ben1445]

He doesn't are not some vassals of his wrath?

By choice. As it says there in 2 Peter 3 “this they are willingly ignorant of.”
If they are willing to reject the truth of the flood, why are they not able to be willing to reject the truth of Christ?

 

[Ben1445]

God did not intend to save all lost sinner's by the Cross of Christ

Scripture for that please?

 

[Silverhair]

No one man is always right, I agree on this. That is why we are to be as the Bereans, yes.
Now we know that sometimes teachers we follow are not always correct. That also tells us, we might be the ones who are wrong!
I found this section by the teacher Charles Hodge. He seems to be a gifted person. If you are going to disagree with him, can you identify what he says, that you feel he has errored on. That would be helpful. Get specific and it will help us all to weigh it out.

Reformed Presbyterian theologian. that say enough for me. He would have held to the TULIP and determinism so we would have been miles apart in what we see as biblical theology.

I have seen and heard enough of that particular view to know that I do not agree with it.

Yes, that can happen. But the same could be said of us right? let's say in this case Charles Hodge has spoken correctly. Is it possible you are the one who is straying a bit?

I was fortunate that I had never heard of the Cal/Armin fight for the first 60 plus years of my life. But what I have heard as seen since then has convinced me that it is just a man-made theology clocked in a veneer of biblical theology to give it some acceptability.

 

[Ben1445]

Jesus stated that he came just for His own, His own sheep, and only they shall be able to hear and follow Him, so not the Good Shephard of the all, but of the many

But He came unto His own and His own received Him not.
Tell me why God said he loves the world but only saves some?

 

[Ben1445]

Those points came straight from and out of the scriptures

The Scripture came from Scripture and only stated that men are sinners. All of the points that followed without Scripture don’t show that God created certain people without the ability to receive salvation. The fact that God knows who will and won’t has nothing to do with the ability of any person to receive salvation.

 

[Silverhair]

No lost sinner can get saved apart from the Father drawing them. choosing them and electing them, Jesus death in their stead as their sin bearer, and the regenerative working of the Holy Spirit

Agreed and we know that God has draw men through creation, conviction of sin or the gospel message. Those that freely respond in faith are then saved by God and are thus part of the elect.

Christ bore the sins of all men, 1Jn 2:2 "and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world." not just the so called elect of the C/R view.

 

[Ben1445]

In same Fashion God permitted the Heathen and Pagans in the "Promised Land" to go evil and wicked some 400 years, before he sent Israel in there to "clean them up"

This shows that God will judge sinners. It doesn’t mean that they couldn’t repent.

 

[Silverhair]

Due to Him holding to a full free will view of salvation

You mean the biblical view.

 

[Silverhair]

Just as ALL in Adam are under judgement unto physical/spiritual death, and final condemnation, all those in Christ are saved, possess eternal life, and now no comdemnation

Have I said anything different?

 

[Silverhair]

NOTHING to do with spiritual life, refers ONLY to those who have to face capital punishment for their sins, that one must face the penalty based upon own sinning

Just as we are judged for our sins by God.

Do you think God holds me responsible for the sins of my son or grandson?

 

[Reynolds]

Scripture for this please?

Eph 1:4-5

 

[Reynolds]

Just as we are judged for our sins by God.

Do you think God holds me responsible for the sins of my son or grandson?

Not as it pertains to your justification. In a sense, He does. If your sins led to your children to be raised to live in sin, then their sin is a direct consequence of your sin.

 

[Zaatar71]

It is an academic point to say that Those who will not be saved, will not be saved.
As far as I can tell we disagree on the point where I read Scripture to say that where all are gone out of the way, and have all gone out of the way, the Lord laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

Yes Ben, you have been correctly zeroing in on the issue. In Isa.53 that you allude to here. Notice he saves MANY, not all

 

[Zaatar71]

Eph 1:4-5

That is a strong verse Reynolds!

 

[Zaatar71]

How do you find that original sin is atoned for?

Ben,
Great question. I think Romans 5:12-21 answers it.
Those who remain in the first Adam, remain in the realm of sin and death, and their sin is not atoned for- They go to the White throne judgment.
Rom.5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
[First birth= Spiritually dead]

Sinners who become born again/ from above , their sin was paid 100% by Jesus in His Covenant death that He accomplished.
Rom. 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift.
For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Does this help a little ?