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Is the KJV's rendering the most accurate in these ten passages?

Alan Dale Gross

Well-Known Member
"The phrase "ordained them elders by election" refers to the Greek word χειροτονέω (pronounced khei-ro-to-NEH-o), which appears in Acts 14:23. In the original biblical text, it is written as χειροτονήσαντες (verb form: cheirotonesantes), meaning "having appointed" or "having chosen." [1, 2, 3]

Greek Words Breakdown
  • χειροτονέω (cheirotoneo): This is a compound word combining cheir (hand) and teino (to stretch).
  • Literally, it means "to stretch out the hand."
Historical and Biblical Context
  • The Literal Meaning: In classical Greek culture (such as the Athenian democratic assembly), "stretching out the hand" was the literal, physical gesture used to cast a vote or election. [1, 2]
  • New Testament Usage: In Acts 14:23, Paul and Barnabas are described as using this process to establish leaders for new churches. While traditionally translated as "ordained" or "appointed," the root implies that leadership selection involved congregational suffrage or consensus. [1, 2, 3, 4]
  • Linguistic Shift: While cheirotoneo initially meant choosing by raising hands, over time, the "hand" element became a dead metaphor. By the time of the early Church Fathers, it became the standard term for the ecclesiastical rite of ordination (such as the laying on of hands). [1, 2]...https://www.google.com/search?q=ordened+them+elders+by+election+in+greek&rlz=1C1RXQR_enUS1166US1166&oq=ordened+them+elders+by+eleccion&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCQgCECEYChigATIGCAAQRRg5MgkIARAhGAoYoAEyCQgCECEYChigATIJCAMQIRgKGKABMgkIBBAhGAoYoAEyBwgFECEYjwIyBwgGECEYjwLSAQg0MzE2ajBqN6gCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
...

"And when they had Ordained them Elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting,
they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed", Acts 14:23.


Expositor's Greek Testament

"Acts 14:23. χειροτονήσαντες δὲ αὐτοῖς πρεσβ., see above, Acts 10:41, where the compound verb is used, “chosen of God,” ὑπὸ Θ.

"The simple verb is only used here and in 2 Corinthians 8:19 : lit[273], to elect by popular vote, by show of hands, but it is by no means a word of certain meaning, and came to be used, as Ramsay admits, in the sense of appointing or designating.


"Here evidently the word is not used in the literal sense given above, as Paul and Barnabas appoint, and that the idea of popular election did not necessarily belong to the word, at least in later Greek, is evident from Josephus, Ant., vi., 13, 9, τὸν ὑπὸ τοῦ Θεοῦ κεχειροτονημένον βασιλέα: cf. Acts 13:2; Acts 13:2, of the appointment of Jonathan as high priest by Alexander.

"On the later use of the word, of which there is no early trace, as referring to the stretching out of the bishop’s hands in the laying on of hands, cf. “Ordination” (Hatch, Dict. of Chr. Ant., ii., p. 1501 ff.). Blass takes the word here as = καθιστάναι, and compares Titus 1:5, although he thinks that nothing is said here about the mode of election, and that the Church may have had some share in it.

"So too Ramsay compares the same passage, Titus 1:5, and concludes that St. Paul doubtless followed there the same method which he followed here, a method in which the votes and voices of each congregation were considered, cf.
2 Corinthians 8:19.

"But the office to which Luke was appointed in 2 Cor., l. c., was not an office which involved ordination, and we could not argue from it alone to the method of the appointment of elders in the passage before us.

"At the same time it may be fully admitted that the Church was not without some share in the election of the elders, and it must not be forgotten that, in the case of the Seven, the Church had elected, and the Apostles had ordained, Acts 6:3.

"In Clem. Rom., Cor[274], xliv, whilst the Apostles took care to secure that after their death distinguished men should appoint presbyters and deacons, yet the latter were elected with the consent of the whole Church, and they were exposed, as it were, to the judgment of the Church (see on this voice of the Church, Moberly, Ministerial Priesthood, p. 89, and Gore, Church and the Ministry, p. 100 ff.).

"If we compare the language of Acts 6:3, Titus 1:5, Clem. Rom., Cor[275], xlii. 4, xliv. 2, 3, and the use of the verb καθίστημι in each, it would seem that the κατάστασις was throughout reserved to the Apostles or their representatives, whilst the Church, if not always selecting, may at least be regarded as consenting, συνευδοκησάσης τῆς ἐκκλησίας πάσης, Clem. Rom., u. s., xliv. 3; see “Bishop” (Haddan), Dict. of Chr. Ant., i., p. 213.

Note: Seeking the intended Divine interpretation has been weighed out by good men on both sides
who have investigated the various nuances inherent in the definition of the word χειροτονήσαντες.


"But, further, in the passage before us it is not impossible that the choice as well as the ordination of the presbyters may be referred to Paul and Barnabas, cf. the pronoun αὐτοῖς: “having appointed for them,” and in newly founded communities it was not unnatural that the Apostles should exercise such choice and authority."

The Apostles had been Ordained and sent out by Authority of their mother church's majority vote of that congregation.

...

Just as Patrick Fairbairn said about Beza, there is, therefore, no reason for charging...
...either the KJV translators, Archbishop Richard Bancroft, Bishop Thomas Bilson, or another prelate
with bad faith, as if, in inscribing such sense to the word χειροτονήσαντες,
that they deliberately tampered with the integrity of scripture.

...

Jultomte in 1677 London Baptist Confession, Ecclesiology October 9, 2019

Acts 14:23 in 2LCF 26.9

"...Patrick Fairbairn weighed in on the translation of this text in his Hermeneutical Manual,
again taking note of Erasmus and Beza:
fairbairn.jpg
"In further reading, William Bucanus offered the same interpretation of Acts 14:23 in his A Body of Divinity.
They [ministers] ought to be approved of the chief men, which do excell other both in piety and in dignity in the church, as of the magistrate, if he be godly, Christian, or an allower of the Christian Religion: yet not excluding the consent of the people, but given them power, if they have any reason to dissent, to declare the causes of their lawfull refusal, so that none be admitted to Ecclesiastical Functions without the privity, open notice given, and the acceptance of the whole Church:
So Paul and Barnabas are said to have appointed Elders in the Churches, not according to their own private pleasures, but by advisement of the people, first by wholesome counsel, and yet the people declaring their voices or consent by holding up of their hands. And then they had ordained them Elders by voices (or holding up of hands) in the Church, said Luke, Acts 14:23.
"Referring to a congregation’s “power, privileges, and liberty to choose their officers,”
John Cotton, in his The Keyes of the Kingdom said,..."
"The like, or greater liberty is generally approved by the best of our Divines (studious of Reformation) from Acts 14:23.
They ordained them Elders, chosen by lifting up of hands."
 
Last edited:

Alan Dale Gross

Well-Known Member
Where's your equal measures and standards on what you accuse the KJV makers of here???
the makers of the KJV remove vital words or phrases
in Acts 14:23 where either the KJV translators, Archbishop Richard Bancroft, Bishop Thomas Bilson, or another prelate omitted the words "by election" found in Tyndale's New Testament, Coverdale's Bible, Matthew's Bible, Great Bible, Taverner's Bible, Jugge’s New Testament, Whittingham’s New Testament, Geneva Bible, and Bishops' Bible ("ordained them elders by election").
You seem terribly concerned "by leaving out the two words 'by election'" which you say were "mutilated and corrupted by James’s revisers", although "by election", is not in the interlinear, above, or any Greek manuscripts, and are just redundant words added, which are understood and implied within χειροτονήσαντες;
3 5500 [e]
23 cheirotonēsantes
23 χειροτονήσαντες
23 having chosen
23 V-APA-NMP
“This all-important text [Acts 14:23] was mutilated and corrupted by James’s revisers, by leaving out the two words ’by election;’
Do you see anything like "ορισμός | στα ισπανικά | στα γαλλικά | συνώνυμα στα αγγλικά" in these Greek texts?;

Greek Texts

ΠΡΑΞΕΙΣ 14:23 Greek NT: Nestle 1904
χειροτονήσαντες δὲ αὐτοῖς κατ’ ἐκκλησίαν πρεσβυτέρους, προσευξάμενοι μετὰ νηστειῶν παρέθεντο αὐτοὺς τῷ Κυρίῳ εἰς ὃν πεπιστεύκεισαν.

ΠΡΑΞΕΙΣ 14:23 Greek NT: Westcott and Hort 1881
χειροτονήσαντες δὲ αὐτοῖς κατ' ἐκκλησίαν πρεσβυτέρους προσευξάμενοι μετὰ νηστειῶν παρέθεντο αὐτοὺς τῷ κυρίῳ εἰς ὃν πεπιστεύκεισαν.

ΠΡΑΞΕΙΣ 14:23 Greek NT: Westcott and Hort / [NA27 and UBS4 variants]
χειροτονήσαντες δὲ αὐτοῖς κατ' ἐκκλησίαν πρεσβυτέρους προσευξάμενοι μετὰ νηστειῶν παρέθεντο αὐτοὺς τῷ κυρίῳ εἰς ὃν πεπιστεύκεισαν.

ΠΡΑΞΕΙΣ 14:23 Greek NT: RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
Χειροτονήσαντες δὲ αὐτοῖς πρεσβυτέρους κατ’ ἐκκλησίαν, προσευξάμενοι μετὰ νηστειῶν, παρέθεντο αὐτοὺς τῷ κυρίῳ εἰς ὃν πεπιστεύκεισαν.

ΠΡΑΞΕΙΣ 14:23 Greek NT: Greek Orthodox Church
χειροτονήσαντες δὲ αὐτοῖς πρεσβυτέρους κατ’ ἐκκλησίαν καὶ προσευξάμενοι μετὰ νηστειῶν παρέθεντο αὐτοὺς τῷ Κυρίῳ, εἰς ὃν πεπιστεύκασι.

ΠΡΑΞΕΙΣ 14:23 Greek NT: Tischendorf 8th Edition
χειροτονήσαντες δὲ αὐτοῖς κατ’ ἐκκλησίαν πρεσβυτέρους προσευξάμενοι μετὰ νηστειῶν παρέθεντο αὐτοὺς τῷ κυρίῳ εἰς ὃν πεπιστεύκεισαν.

ΠΡΑΞΕΙΣ 14:23 Greek NT: Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
χειροτονήσαντες δὲ αὐτοῖς πρεσβυτέρους κατ’ ἐκκλησίαν, προσευξάμενοι μετὰ νηστειῶν, παρέθεντο αὐτοὺς τῷ Κυρίῳ εἰς ὃν πεπιστεύκεισαν.

ΠΡΑΞΕΙΣ 14:23 Greek NT: Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
χειροτονήσαντες δὲ αὐτοῖς πρεσβυτέρους κατ' ἐκκλησίαν προσευξάμενοι μετὰ νηστειῶν παρέθεντο αὐτοὺς τῷ κυρίῳ εἰς ὃν πεπιστεύκεισαν

Acts 14:23 Greek Study Bible (Apostolic / Interlinear)
χειροτονήσαντες δὲ αὐτοῖς κατ’ ἐκκλησίαν πρεσβυτέρους, προσευξάμενοι μετὰ νηστειῶν παρέθεντο αὐτοὺς τῷ κυρίῳ εἰς ὃν πεπιστεύκεισαν.

KJV with Strong's
"And when they had ordained them elders in every church and had prayed with fasting
they commended them to the Lord on whom they believed"
 

Alan Dale Gross

Well-Known Member
And you should be thrilled to hear of those that arbitrarily change the meaning of certain Bible texts, removes vital words and phrases from certain passages, and diminish the Authority of the Bible.
The serious problem and alarming inadequacy with KJV-only articles and books is their dependance upon fallacies and their use of double standards as they fail to apply their exact same standards or measures that they use to accuse post-1611 English Bibles to the KJV itself.

Tell everyone so they will know that maybe you should consider the removal of 15 entire verses an enormously more serious problem and alarming inadequacy in the Modern Bibles, just for starters, compared to 'two words' that were supplied in only a half dozens versions that you consider to have been "omitted", with your utter dependence upon fallacies and your use of genuine double standards as you fail to apply your exact same standards or measures that you use to accuse the King James English Bible itself.

Please, share with us how terribly distraught you are about;​

Sixteen Verses Omitted from Modern Bibles

and that you demand to know how they could have let this happen.​


Here are the sixteen whole verses:
  1. Matthew 17:21: "Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by Prayer and Fasting."
  2. Matthew 18:11: "For the Son of man is Come to Save that which was lost."
  3. Matthew 23:14: "Woe unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater Damnation."
  4. Mark 7:16: "If any man have ears to Hear, let him Hear."
  5. Mark 9:44: "Where their worm dieth not, and the Fire is not quenched."
  6. Mark 9:46: "Where their worm dieth not, and the Fire is not quenched."
  7. Mark 11:26: "But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in Heaven Forgive your trespasses."
  8. Mark 15:28: "And the Scripture was Fulfilled, which saith, And He was numbered with the transgressors."
  9. Luke 17:36: "Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."
  10. John 5:4: "For an Angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had."
  11. Acts 8:37: "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
  12. Acts 15:34: "Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still."
  13. Acts 24:7: "But the chief captain Lysias came upon us, and with great violence took Him away out of our hands,"
  14. Acts 28:29: "And when He had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves."
  15. Romans 16:24: "The Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen."
  16. I John 5:7: "For there are Three that Bear Record in Heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these Three are One."
"It is important to read the surrounding scriptures
to get an understanding of the impact the omission of the above verses really have."
Perhaps using the fallacy of begging the question, those biased articles often assume the KJV to be the standard in and of itself instead of comparing the KJV and other English Bible translations to the proper standard of the preserved Scriptures in the original languages.
You want to know how smart you are?

Bring out those preserved Scriptures that the Modern Bible translators ignorantly dismissed out of hand,
based on the intentional lie they were spurious.
 

Alan Dale Gross

Well-Known Member
So, they have to pretend to define, find, and rescue the World from "problems", with God's Fulfilled Promise to Supernaturally Preserve His Word in the Universally Recognized version of The Holy Bible of over Four-Hundred years, by first framing their marketing ploy into associating anyone who uses the King James Version, with the Cult of Ruckmanism, and "lie in wait to deceive", in the exact same manner in which Peter Ruckman was, in his day, "traveling about with the sole intention to deceive."*

*Peter Ruckman - Dangerous Deceiver and False Prophet - Part 1

"That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of Doctrine,
by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

But speaking the Truth in Love, may grow up into Him in all things, which is the Head, even Christ:" (Ephesians 4:14)
Your own posts demonstrate that you believe some non-scriptural KJV-only reasoning/teaching.
According to your jaded bias needed for your kangaroo Bully Pulpit.
It is your own statements that would identify your view as KJV-only.
According to your half-baked, decreped, sacriligious, and jaded bias needed for your kangaroo Bully Pulpit.

Don't bother trying to show 'where', because you'll only disclose your deceit with additional clarification.

After showing their dependence upon their deception of unceremoniously placing all Bible readers who prefer the Supernaturally Inspired Superiority of the King James Bible**, into the "King James Only Camp" of Peter Ruckman's heresies, and presumably dismissing them all, "Like shooting fish in a barrel", they next proceed to embarrass themselves by bragging on their ignorance, if not just being illiterate, of the English Language and others, also.

**(remind me to illustrate this to you).
There was the reminder, or two. There will be plenty more, because that is all he's got.

An simpleton Smear Campaign too cheap to talk about.

You do not apply the same exact measures/standards to the many varying editions of the KJV that you inconsistently and unjustly apply to post-1611 English Bibles. I soundly apply the same measures/standards to the KJV that KJV-only advocates apply to other post-1611 English Bibles. The truth is consistent while KJV-only reasoning/teaching is inconsistent.
Show me where you ever "soundly apply the same measures/standards" to the Modern Bibles' omitting vital Bible Doctrinal words from the Bible which are essential characteristics that define Christianity, such as;
"Christ, Lord, Jesus, God, Godhead, Lucifer, devil(s), hell, heaven, damned (-able, -ation), blood, salvation,
Word of God, Word of the Lord, and The Lord Jesus Christ"
, as below.

Table of Changes: Over 2,000 to Over 17,000 Changes.​

Differs from the King James Bible
in the New Testament
o = Omitts Word(s)
a = Adds
NKJV
NIV
NASV
NRSV
RSV
NCV
LIV
WORDS
o 2289​
o 5219​
a 3561​
o 3890​
o 6985​
a 11114​
a 17003​
VERSES
0​
o 16​
o 17​
o 18​
o 25​
o 16​
o 7​


The number of times
15 Major words differ
from the King James Bible
o = Omits Word(s)​
a = Adds
Word(s)​
* = Word(s)
Completely
Removed​
WORD
NIV
NASV
NKJV
RSV
NRSV
NCV
LIV
Christo 25o 34o 1o 32o 87a 121a 44
Lordo 352o 438o 66o 36o 91o 299o 2368
Jesusa 292o 64o 2o 53a 16a 1098a 293
Godo 468o 87o 51o 111o 138a 803a 452
Godheado 3 *o 3 *o 1o 3 *o 3 *o 3 *o 3 *
Lucifero 1 *o 1 * o 1 *o 1 *o 1 *
devil(s)o 80o 82o 81o 82o 80o 74o 87
hello 40o 41o 22o 41o 41o 39a 13
heaveno 160o 127o 50o 83o 88o 186o 26
damned (able, ation)o 15 *o 15 *o 15 *o 15 *o 15 *o 15 *o 7
bloodo 41o 39o 23o 26o 46o 157o 174
salvationo 42o 4o 2o 33o 37o 94o 25
Word of Godo 8o 2o 1o 3o 8o 31o 27
Word of the Lordo 25o 2a 4o 2o 3o 217o 236
Lord Jesus Christo 24o 21 o 21o 22o 20o 15
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
According to your jaded bias needed for your kangaroo Bully Pulpit.

According to your half-baked, decreped, sacriligious, and jaded bias needed for your kangaroo Bully Pulpit.

Don't bother trying to show 'where', because you'll only disclose your deceit with additional clarification.

An simpleton Smear Campaign too cheap to talk about.



You have proven no deceit and no "smear campaign" in my accurate statements. You prove no misrepresentation of your views in my posts. You improperly attack me for believing that you believe what you yourself post. It is your own assertions that demonstrate that you hold to a form of KJV-only reasoning/teaching.

There could be intended deception in your false accusations and your bogus attempts to misrepresent and smear me.

My bias is for the KJV, which I have read and studied for over 60 years.

I have not recommended nor advocated the Critical Text nor English Bible translations made from it as you improperly try to associate me with it. I repeatedly have advocated applying the same exact measures/standards consistently and justly. I properly take the same exact measures and standards used by KJV-only advocates and attempt to apply them to the KJV in order to demonstrate the KJV-only use of double standards.

You fail to apply the same exact measures/standards to the KJV that you attempt inconsistently and unjustly to apply to post-1611 English Bible translations such as the 1833 Webster’s Bible that was reprinted in 1987, the 1842 revision of the KJV by Baptists, the 1962 Teen-age Version of the Holy Bible by Jay Green, the 1982 NKJV, the 1986 Literal Translation in The Interlinear Bible, the 1990 Modern King James Version, the 1994 21st Century King James Version, the 1998 Third Millennium Bible, the King James 2000 Version, 2000/2013 Jubilee Bible, 2006 New Authorized Version—AV7 NT, the 2010 KJ3 Literal Translation, the 2014 Modern English Version, the 2022 Simplified KJV, Nick Sayers’ 2023 King James Version New Testament, and the 2024 edition of the Modern English Bible.
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The NKJV does not omit the word "God" 51 times where the Hebrew word for "God" or the Greek word for "God" is found in the KJV's and the NKJV's underlying original-language texts of Scripture. Differing from the KJV would not prove the NKJV to be wrong. This example would demonstrate the KJV-only use of divers measures or double standards.

Gail Riplinger claimed in her tract that the "NKJV omits the word ‘God’ 51 times” (Church Bus News, April-June, 1996, p. 26). This inaccurate claim seems to be based on a simple comparison of the NKJV to the KJV and not on a comparison to the preserved Scriptures in the original languages. This count likely does not even take into consideration the places where the KJV has the word “God” added in italics. In the 2021 updated edition of New Age Bible Versions, Gail Riplinger continued to repeat her misleading, incorrect claim that the NKJV omits “God 51 times” (p. 4).

In response to this misleading charge, James D. Price noted: “The truth is that the KJV added the word ‘God’ in fifty one or more places where the Hebrew or Greek text did not contain it--and that without using italics in most cases. This was because the KJV used dynamic equivalence paraphrases such as ‘God forbid,’ ‘God save the king,’ or ‘God speed’ instead of a more literal expression in good English. In all these places the NKJV made the KJV more literal and more faithful to the Hebrew and Greek texts without undermining the place of God in the Bible” (False Witness of G. A. Riplinger's Death Certificate for the NKJV, p. 4). James D. Price then discussed these times and demonstrated the faithfulness of the NKJV to the Hebrew and Greek texts underlying the KJV.
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
According to a consistent, just application of the measures/standards used by KJV-only advocates to attack the NKJV, would the KJV translators be condemned for omitting "thy God" at Deuteronomy 26:1 in the 1611 edition of the KJV?

David Norton wrote: "Without the evidence of Bod 1602 [the 1602 edition of the Bishops' Bible with the handwritten changes or revisions made by the KJV translators themselves], 1611's omission of 'thy God' would appear to be a simple omission by the printer. But the translators struck through 'thy God'" (Textual History of the KJB, p. 42). Concerning Deuteronomy 26:1, David Norton wrote: "1629 [Cambridge] follows B [Bishops] and G [Geneva]. 1611 appeared to be a printer's omission, but Bod shows that it goes back to the translators" (p. 224).

According to a consistent, just application of the measures/standards used by KJV-only advocates to attack the NKJV, would the KJV translators be condemned for omitting "of the LORD" at 2 Kings 11:10 in the 1611 edition of the KJV?

Concerning 2 Kings 11:10, David Norton wrote: "This looks like an omission by the translators but may be deliberate" (Textual History of the KJB, p. 242).
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter


Was it an enormously serious problem and an alarming inadequacy for the Church of England makers of the KJV to remove three whole verses at Psalm 14 that were found in the 1535 Coverdale's Bible, the 1539 Great Bible, and the 1602 edition of the Bishops' Bible?

Was it an enormously serious problem that the 1526 Tyndale's NT, the 1535 Coverdale's Bible, and the 1537 Matthew's Bible [three Bibles on the KJV-only view's pure stream of Bibles] did not have Mark 11:26, Luke 17:36, and Revelation 21:26 because those three verses were not in the Greek NT editions made by Erasmus?

 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

Table of Changes: Over 2,000 to Over 17,000 Changes.

Differs from the King James Bible in the New Testament

The number of times 15 Major words differ from the King James Bible
Does this claimed "table of changes" unintentionally reveal KJV-only reasoning as an unidentified one of the many varying editions of the King James Version would seem to be assumed to be the standard in and of itself, in effect assuming or making the textual criticism decisions and translation decisions in the KJV superior to the preserved Scriptures in the original languages? Was the KJV also assumed to be the standard in determining which words are considered "major" words?
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
the Modern Bibles' omitting vital Bible Doctrinal words from the Bible which are essential characteristics that define Christianity, such as;
" damned
The 1895 Sunday School Teacher's Bible noted the following concerning "damnation, or condemnation" in its list of obsolete or ambiguous words in the KJV: "These words were used as equivalent terms when the A. V. was made." KJV-only author Jack Moorman wrote that “there is not a great deal of difference between ‘damnation’ and ‘condemnation.‘ As ‘damn’ comes from the Latin damnare, so ’condemn’ does also” (Conies, pp. 7-8). Concerning this word at 1 Timothy 5:12, Vincent commented: “It should be said for the translators of 1611 that they used damnation in this sense of judgment or condemnation, as is shown by the present participle having. In its earlier usage the word implied no allusion to a future punishment” (Word Studies, IV, p. 263).


Several of the early pre-1611 English Bibles had "damnation" at Luke 23:40, John 5:24, Romans 5:16, Romans 8:1, and James 3:1 while the KJV changes it to "condemnation." The 1535 Coverdale’s Bible has “damnation” (2 Cor. 3:9) where the KJV has “condemnation.” At James 5:9, the Geneva and KJV revised some of the early Bibles’ rendering “damned” to “condemned.“ Wycliffe’s Bible has “damned” (Matt. 12:37, Heb. 11:7) where the KJV has “condemned.” Wycliffe’s has “undamned” (Acts 16:37, 22:25) where the KJV has “uncondemned.“ Instead of “judgment,“ Whittingham’s and Geneva have “damnation” (Rev. 17:1). Tyndale’s, Coverdale’s, Matthew’s, and Great have “damnation” (Heb. 10:39) instead of “perdition.” At Romans 9:22, Philippians 3:19, and 2 Peter 2:1, Tyndale’s, Coverdale’s, Matthew’s, and Great Bibles have “damnation” while the KJV has “destruction.“


Would KJV-only advocates claim that the KJV omitted or removed a major doctrinal word, toned down or weakened the rendering of the pre-1611 English Bibles in any of these verses cited above? Does a consistent application of your own post suggest that the KJV omitted a vital Bible doctrinal word "damnation" at Luke 23:40, John 5:24, Romans 5:16, Romans 8:1, and James 3:1?
 

Alan Dale Gross

Well-Known Member
Gail Riplinger claimed in her tract that the "NKJV omits the word ‘God’ 51 times” (Church Bus News, April-June, 1996, p. 26).
For no good reason. Only to disparage and denigrate the Author and rob Him of the Glory of repeating His Name, 'God', within the context of the Bible, His Own Written Word and Record of Himself, as in Psalm 138:2; "I will Worship toward Thy Holy Temple, and praise Thy Name for Thy Lovingkindness and for Thy Truth: for Thou hast Magnified Thy Word above All Thy Name."

The NKJV doesn't want to Worship toward "God's" Holy Temple,
and praise "God's" Name for "God's" Lovingkindness and for "God's" Truth?


This inaccurate claim seems to be based on a simple comparison of the NKJV to the KJV and not on a comparison to the preserved Scriptures in the original languages.
Gail Riplinger entirely accurate observation was that in 'a simple comparison of the NKJV to the KJV', "NKJV omits the word ‘God’ 51 times”. Perfectly Normal, Perfectly Healthy.

There is no anticipation in Translating an idiom from one language to another for there to be a 'word-for-word' application.

So when it can be clearly demonstarted that the kjv and the Greek text was not always in full agreement, then the Kjv is right and the originals language text was wrong?
Nope. (You're describing what Dr. Bob categorized, shown down below**, as a #4 & #5 KJV-Only proponent, which are skewed and indefensible positions.) In the example of the German idiom*, Gesundheit, it is a word commonly used in English as an alternative to "God bless you" when someone sneezes..", while in the example of the Greek idiom, μὴ γένοιτο (pronounced may geh-NOY-toe) is a forceful Koine Greek phrase meaning "By no means," "Absolutely not," or "God forbid."

"Ideally, a good translation of a wording in one language will not only convey both the propositional (including idiomatic) meaning as well as rhetorical impact intended by the original author. Rhetorical meaning (impact) is very much a part of the meaning of any utterance to be translated. To adequately translate all aspects of the meaning of μη γενοιτο to any language, for most speakers of that language it is necessary to use some wording which is already used naturally to communicate a rhetorical impact equivalent to the Greek phrase."

"God forbid" is iconic to the King James Version (KJV) of the Bible.
"It appears 15 times, famously in the book of Romans (e.g., Romans 6:2) to emphatically reject an idea."

In the interest of Preservation, we have the God-Honoring Name, God, used in the English text of His Bible.

King James Bible
"God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"

Coverdale Bible of 1535
"God forbyd. How shal we lyue in synne, yt are deed from it?"

Tyndale Bible of 1526
"God forbyd. How shall we that are deed as touchynge synne live eny lenger therin?"


In the interest of appeasing the author of confusion, "It is interesting to survey English Bible versions to see how they have translated this phrase. Which translations (Rom. 3:4 was surveyed) do you think translate the meaning of the Greek phrase accurately and naturally with equivalent rhetorical impact using English which is widely in use? I’ll identify the versions at the end of this post."
  1. "Certainly not!"
  2. "Absolutely not!"
  3. "God forbid"
  4. "By no means!"
  5. "Not at all!"
  6. "May it never be!"
  7. "No, indeed!"
  8. "Of course not!"
  9. "No!"
  10. "That would be unthinkable!"
  11. "Out of the question!"
  12. "Never may that happen!"
  13. "Never!"
  14. "Not on your life!"
  15. "let it not be!"
  16. "Far be the thought"
"...most of these translations are powerful, accurately conveying the content and rhetorical impact of the Greek phrase in natural, extant English, except for" those in bold, and none of which have an underlying meaning directly from the Greek that are anymore meaningful and expressive than "God forbid" supplies.

"Versions identified:
1. REB/TEV/NKJV/The Source
2. NET/HCSB
3. Tyndale/KJV/ASV
4. RSV/NRSV/ESV/Amplified Bible
5. NIV/TNIV
6. NASB
7. CEV
8. Phillips/NAB/NLT/ISV
9. NCV
10. GW
11. NJB
12. NWT
13. Beck
14. The Message
15. Young’s Literal
16. Darby"

*Anidiom is a common phrase or expression with a figurative meaning. You cannot understand it by taking the words literally. Its actual meaning is completely different from the sum of its individual words and must be learned as a whole.

**
KJVO #4 "I BELIEVE THE KING JAMES IS INSPIRED"

This group, by far the majority of the KJVonly, believe that the KJV itself, as an English translation, is inspired and therefore inerrant. A person who would dare to defend or even use another translation of the Bible are rejecting the "true" and "real" Bible, the only Word of God.

To this group, any "change" (added words, omitted words or verses, different choices of English words, modern words) is deviation from the truth and therefore "corrupt". The standard is always the KJV. They believe that God providentially gave the translators wisdom and guided them so that they translated all of the words correctly. As a result, they believe the King James Version is the perfectly preserved Word of God in the English language.

"The King James Bible Alone = The Word of God Alone."
KJVO #5 "I BELIEVE THE KJV IS NEW REVELATION"

This group believes that the KJV was supernaturally inspired in such a way that the English text itself is inerrant revelation. The Bible was "re-inspired" in 1611, rendering it in the English language.

These would say that the Greek/Hebrew should be changed to agree with the "new" revelation in 1611 and that all translations into other languages (Spanish, French, etc) should match the KJV.
 
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Alan Dale Gross

Well-Known Member
In the 2021 updated edition of New Age Bible Versions, Gail Riplinger continued to repeat her misleading, incorrect claim that the NKJV omits “God 51 times” (p. 4).
From English version to English version, the number of times the NKJV omits "God" is 51. There is no getting around that.

If you'd you'd like to visit The King James Bible Comparison Page
there are 770 verses which have been corrupted in the modern versions. They also reveal that the modern versions are one and the same with the New World Translation of the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Roman Catholic Bibles.
All you have to do is click on any verse and you will instantly see the corruption.
2 Cor. 2:11 (KJV) "Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices."
and also
Here they are showing corruption in 776 verses!
The Old Testament & The New Testament


The NKJV does not omit the word "God" 51 times where the Hebrew word for "God" or the Greek word for "God" is found in the KJV's and the NKJV's underlying original-language texts of Scripture.
Brilliant! It makes no difference and doesn't matter one lick, but it's Brilliant!

Try to find "where the Hebrew word for "Morning" is found in the KJV's underlying original-language texts of Scripture", where Satan has given himself the Title of Jesus in place of his name, "Lucifer", when he adds "Morning Star" in as the substitute for "Lucifer", in Isaiah 14:12,15, when the is no Hebrew word for "Star" and "Morning" is in the Hebrew once, but not twice, and has nothing to do with Satan's name, "Lucifer", which is omitted in most every modern version, except the NKJV, which got one thing accurate that time, interestingly enough, as a true rarity.

"O Lucifer, son of the morning" - The Sounding of an Alarm

By Floyd Nolen Jones.

In the King James Bible, Isaiah 14:12, 15 reads:
How are thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
...Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell.
However, the New International Version pens:
How you have fallen from heaven O morning star, son of the dawn
...but you are brought down to the grave.
"Indeed, the New American Standard and all the modern versions read almost exactly like the NIV (except the NKJV). Yet historically Isaiah 14 has been cited throughout the Church as the singular biography and identification of Lucifer.

"In verse twelve of the King James, Lucifer is in Heaven; in verse fifteen Satan is in Hell, and the continuing context establishes that Lucifer and Satan are one and the same being. The new versions have removed the name "Lucifer" thereby eliminating the only reference to his true identity in the entire Bible – yet the change in these versions is not the result of translation from the Hebrew language."

"The Hebrew here is helel, ben shachar, which translates "Lucifer, son of the morning" (as is found in all the old English translations written before 1611 when the KJB was published).

"The NIV, NASB et al. read as though the Hebrew was kokab shachar, ben shachar or "morning star, son of the dawn" (or "son of the morning"). But not only is the Hebrew word for star (kokab) nowhere to be found in the text, "morning" appears only once as given in the KJB – not twice as the modern versions indicate.

"Moreover, the word kokab is translated as "star" dozens of other times by the translators of these new "bibles". Their editors also know that kokab boqer is "morning star" for it appears in plural form in Job 38:7 (i.e., morning stars).

"Had the Lord intended "morning star" in Isaiah 14, He could have eliminated any confusion by repeating kokab boqer there. God's selection of helel (Hebrew for Lucifer) is unique as it appears nowhere else in the Old Testament.

Moreover, Revelation 22:16 (also Rev 2:28 and 2Peter 1:19) declares unequivocally that Jesus Christ is the "morning star" or "day star" (2Peter 1:19, cp. Luke 1:78; Mal. 4:2), meaning the sun – not the planet Venus.

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the
churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Thus it must be understood that the identification of Lucifer as being the morning star does not find its roots in the Hebrew O.T., but from classical mythology and witchcraft where he is connected with the planet Venus (the morning "star").

The wording in the modern versions reads such that it appears the fall recorded in Isaiah 14 is speaking of Jesus rather than Lucifer the Devil! The rendering of "morning star" in place of "Lucifer" in this passage must be seen by the Church as nothing less than the ultimate blasphemy.


Differing from the KJV would not prove the NKJV to be wrong. This example would demonstrate the KJV-only use of divers measures or double standards.

Nobody's talking about the NKJV being wrong for omitting "God" and replacing "God" with something more Godless and secular like "Certainly not!", simply as an Hubris Affront to the Bible's Author and Creator God of the Universe Himself.

Why Jesus Cannot Use the New King James Version.​

Then again, the NKJV is certainly known to be wrong throughout.

How does the Lord handle… The doctrine of “Sin”?

What does the Bible say in Psalm 10:5 about the ways of the wicked?
  • "NKJV (©1982) "His ways are always prospering…"
  • "King James Bible (1611) "His ways are always grievous…"
"In this case, the Lord is forced to choose between the King James Bible and the newer version.

"Are the ways of the wicked “always prospering” or are his ways always grievous?

"Each Bible says and means two different things.
The Lord can’t have the same verses saying two different things without looking inconsistent.
And that’s exactly how he’d look if he decides to substitute the new translation
for the one he’s been using for the past 400 years.

"Here’s another example. Notice how this translation choice ultimately affects the inerrancy of the Scriptures:

NKJV (©1982)"You have multiplied the nation And increased its joy…"
King James Bible (1611)"Thou hast multiplied the nation, and not increased the joy…"
"The Lord can’t recommend both of these Bibles because they say and mean the exact opposite.
One reading is true; the other isn’t. Only one can be correct, and the Lord has to choose one. He can’t pick both.

"Plus, if he picks the ©1982 NKJV reading, then he contradicts the reading he’s been using for the past 400 years. That’s not so good if you’re looking for a God who’s trustworthy."
In response to this misleading charge, James D. Price noted: “The truth is that the KJV added the word ‘God’ in fifty one or more places where the Hebrew or Greek text did not contain it--and that without using italics in most cases.
The truth is the KJV Translated;
3361 [e] ..... 1096 [e]
2 .............genoito
2 μὴ..............γένοιτο !
2 never.........may it be
2 Adv............V-AOM-3S

...perfectly well in keeping with an accurate and appropriate TRANSLATION OF A FOREIGN IDIOM, as "God forbid", rather than the terribly awkward and unnatural literal word-for-word rendering , of "never may it be!"
 

Alan Dale Gross

Well-Known Member
This was because the KJV used dynamic equivalence paraphrases such as ‘God forbid,’ ‘God save the king,’ or ‘God speed’ instead of a more literal expression in good English.
It's O.K. to employ a suburb Translation which best expresses the intended meaning, regardless of where someone thinks it comes down in the supposed criteria and recent definitions that attempt to differentiate between Translation Philosophies.

"....the goal of the dynamic equivalence is to produce the same effect in the reader today
as the original text did back in its day.

"The objective of the literal formal is to reproduce the same meaning for the reader today
as the original text did back in the first century."

From: Bible Translations, Part 2: Comparison between Paraphrase, Dynamic Equivalence and Literal / Formal

120228-bible-translation-comparison-chart.jpg
In all these places the NKJV made the KJV more literal and more faithful to the Hebrew and Greek texts without undermining the place of God in the Bible” (False Witness of G. A. Riplinger's Death Certificate for the NKJV, p. 4).
"In all these places the NKJV" ABSOLUTELY DID NOT MAKE "the KJV more literal and more faithful to the Hebrew and Greek texts", BY TRANSLATING "CERTAINLY NOT!", ANYMORE THAN IT ALREADY WAS, BY TRANSLATING "GOD FORBID".

While, the NKJV was busy PRIORITIZING the "undermining the place of God in the Bible”. PERIOD.

James D. Price then discussed these times and demonstrated the faithfulness of the NKJV to the Hebrew and Greek texts underlying the KJV.
And how does the Lord handle…The doctrine of “visions”?
NKJV (©1982)"Where there is no revelation, the people cast off restraint…"
King James Bible (1611)"Where there is no vision, the people perish…"
"Both readings can’t be correct. They may be the same in Hebrew but they sure aren’t in English.

"Here’s another verse that is different and has nothing to do with putting old English into modern English.
Surely the Lord would have advice for childrearing. So how does He teach…The doctrine of “Biblical childrearing”?

NKJV (©1982)"Chasten your son while there is hope, And do not set your heart on his destruction."
King James Bible (1611)"Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying."
"Jesus' Teaching depends on which Bible He chooses.
Setting “your heart on his destruction” can mean a lot of things.
“Spare for his crying” means exactly that."

From: Why Jesus Cannot Use the New King James Version - Jack McElroy
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You try to claim that you are not KJV-only yet you favorably repost inconsistent, incorrect KJV-only reasoning of KJV-only author Jack McElroy, who uses double standard or divers measures. The truth remains that the Hebrew name for God or the Greek name for God is not found in the KJV's and NKJV's underlying original-language texts 51 times where the NKJV is improperly accused of omitting it.

At Acts 10:14, Tyndale's and Matthew's Bibles have "God forbid" while the KJV has "Not so." At Acts 11:8, Tyndale's, Matthew's, Whittingham's, and Geneva Bibles have "God forbid" while the KJV again has "Not so." At 2 Samuel 20:20, the Geneva and Bishops’ Bibles have “God forbid” twice while the KJV has “Far be it” twice. This verse has the same Hebrew word twice that the KJV rendered “God forbid” several other times. At 1 Samuel 20:9, the 1560 Geneva’s rendering [“God keep it from thee”] and the Bishops’ rendering [“God keep that from thee”] were revised in the KJV [“Far be it from thee”]. Would Gail Riplinger, Jack McElroy, and other KJV-only advocates claim that the KJV omitted the name of God at these verses?
 
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Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
"Here’s another example. Notice how this translation choice ultimately affects the inerrancy of the Scriptures:

NKJV (©1982)"You have multiplied the nation And increased its joy…"
King James Bible (1611)"Thou hast multiplied the nation, and not increased the joy…"
"The Lord can’t recommend both of these Bibles because they say and mean the exact opposite.
One reading is true; the other isn’t. Only one can be correct, and the Lord has to choose one. He can’t pick both.

"Plus, if he picks the ©1982 NKJV reading, then he contradicts the reading he’s been using for the past 400 years. That’s not so good if you’re looking for a God who’s trustworthy."
The KJV translators failed to follow their Hebrew Masoretic text's marginal reading at Isaiah 9:3 as they had followed it at Exodus 21:8.

John Eadie asserted: “The Masora gives fifteen instances where lo should be written so as to signify ‘to him’—and not to signify ‘not.’ Thus in Isaiah 9:3, in the clause ‘thou hast not increased the joy,’ which contradicts the rest of the verse, ‘they joy before Thee,’ the translators put the note ‘to him’ into the margin—though it should have been in the text. In Exodus 21:8, ‘not’ should be ‘to himself’ as the Masora intimates, and this is accepted into the text without any remark” (English Bible, Vol. II, p. 209). Concerning Isaiah 9:3 but ignoring Exodus 21:8 and other verses, D. A. Waite wrote: “But the Hebrew says ‘not’ and the KING JAMES translators simply wrote it down, faithfully as they ought to have done” (Defending the KJB, p. 32).

Can Jack McElroy, D. A. Waite or other KJV-only advocates soundly explain why the makers of the KJV translated the same Hebrew noun as three different trees: oak (Isa. 1:30), teil (Isa. 6:13), and elms (Hos. 4:13)? Are these three different trees equivalent words or synonyms? Another Hebrew noun was rendered as "oil tree" (Isa. 41:19), "olive tree" (1 Kings 6:23), and "pine" (Neh. 8:15).

In another example, the KJV itself translated the same Hebrew noun three different ways: “dromedaries” (1 Kings 4:28), “mules” (Esther 8:10, 14), and “swift beast” (Micah 1:13). Are all these renderings equivalent or synonyms? Do these three different renderings all say or mean the same thing in the KJV? Should a Bible translation give the same name for this animal in all three places (1 Kings 4:28, Esther 3:10, Micah 1:13)? About a different example, Jack McElroy asserted: “The Lord must pick the one Bible that names the correct animal. Any Bible that doesn’t name the right animal is absolutely wrong. Only one can be correct” (Which Bible, p. 21). Concerning other English Bible translations, Jack McElroy claimed: “The same Hebrew word is translated five (5) different ways. Only one of these readings is true. Only one can be true” (Bible Version Secrets, p. 447). Jack McElroy fails to apply his own stated measure/standard to the KJV. According to Jack McElroy, can only one of different renderings of the same original-language word be correct and true in the KJV? Why did the KJV translators translate the same Hebrew word as "pelican" at Leviticus 11:18, Deuteronomy 14:17, and Psalm 102:6 but as "cormorant" at Isaiah 34:11 and Zephaniah 2:14?

The makers of the KJV translated one Hebrew noun as “brass” seven times and as “steel” three times (2 Sam. 22:35, Job 20:24, Ps. 18:34).

A consistent, just application of Jack McElroy's inconsistent reasoning would condemn the KJV in some of its inconsistent renderings. Do KJV-only advocates close their eyes to the place where the KJV says and means two different things as its rendering for one original-language word of Scripture? Jack McElroy and other KJV-only advocates demonstrate their use of double standards. Is it being unintentionally suggested that the KJV's inconsistent and conflicting renderings affect the inerrancy of the Scriptures?
 
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Logos1560

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Site Supporter
Concerning 2 Timothy 3:15, Jack McElroy asserted: “Timothy’s mom and grandmother had ‘the holy scriptures’ in their possession. They had copies—not originals” (Which Bible, p. 235). Jack McElroy maintained that “Scripture was in Timothy’s possession” (p. 256).

Did Jack McElroy, and over twenty other TR-only or KJV-only authors fail to notice that the verse (2 Timothy 3:15) does not directly state what they seem to assume and claim? Do they sidestep what the verse actually stated? Do they try to read more into the verse than it states as they clearly try to assert that it states something that it does not? Are they snared by their own private interpretation of this verse? Do they demonstrate unintentionally that they may be adding their own extra-biblical assumptions or opinions to Scripture? Does non-scriptural KJV-only eisegesis insert foreign meanings into this verse (2 Tim. 3:15)? Do KJV-only advocates not accept what 2 Timothy 3:15 actually states? Do some of them try to suggest or imply that 2 Timothy 3:15 teaches that the process of copying the Scriptures is by inspiration when the verse does not say or teach that? Does this misunderstanding, misinterpretation, or eisegesis concerning 2 Timothy 3:15 affect their understanding of 2 Timothy 3:16, leading them to misunderstand and misinterpret it? Is this eisegesis in their interpretation of 2 Timothy 3:15 a necessary or essential aspect of their KJV-only teaching?

This verse (2 Timothy 3:15) does not actually state that Timothy’s Jewish mother, Timothy’s Jewish grandmother, or Timothy had scrolls, a codex, or a physical book with a complete copy of the Old Testament in their possession or in their hands. According to fair, sound hermeneutics, this verse does not state that Timothy had possession of complete copies of the OT Scriptures. The verse did not even directly say that Timothy’s mother, Timothy’s grandmother, or Timothy had read the holy Scriptures. The verb read is not used in 2 Timothy 3:15. This verse stated that Timothy has known the holy scriptures, and he could have known them by more than one way. This verse directly and plainly referred to knowledge of the holy Scriptures, not possession of them. Do some KJV-only authors possibly attempt to place a one-volume codex or printed book outside its proper historical time frame by unintentionally suggesting the existence of one before A. D. 100?

While the term for holy Scriptures in the verse refers to scroll copies, the verse itself does not state that Timothy had possession of them as KJV-only authors claimed and read into it. One way that someone can know Scripture is by hearing it. Thus, Timothy could have known the holy scriptures first by hearing them quoted by his mother and grandmother and later by hearing them read at a synagogue or the temple. Timothy’s mother and grandmother may also have known the scriptures by hearing them read, and then they repeated what they remembered and knew of the Scriptures to Timothy. In the Old Testament, it is noted that the priests were to read the law to all Israel every seven years (Deut. 31:9-13). The Jews often had known the Scriptures orally by either hearing them read or hearing a prophet of God speak the words of God.
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
After citing Isaiah 34:16, Gary John Rov referred to “this 1611 King James Bible, ‘the book of the LORD’, in the right hand of God on the throne” (Called of God, p. 59, p. 60). After quoting Isaiah 34:16 (p. 305), Jack McElroy suggested that the 1611 KJV is that book of the LORD that the Lord has provided (Which Bible, p. 308).

Is a new KJV-only interpretation that attempts to suggest that “the book of the LORD” in Isaiah 34:16 would refer to the KJV an example of eisegesis? In the Hebrew, the book of the LORD (Isaiah 34:16) refers to a scroll as it is literally translated in Isaiah 34:4 so this Hebrew word would not be referring to a one-volume complete Old Testament in a codex or in a printed book. According to grammatico-historical exegesis in this context, this Hebrew noun would be referring to a scroll (likely a copy of just the book of Isaiah or possibly a scroll copy of the Pentateuch). Douglas Stuart wrote: “The Bible is such a historically oriented revelation that ignoring historical context tends to assure misinterpretation. A basic principle of hermeneutics (the science of interpretation) is that a passage cannot mean what it could never have meant” (OT Exegesis, p. 52).

Is the KJV’s rendering “book” at Isaiah 34:16 and at Luke 4:17 possibly an anachronistic rendering or is it a dynamic equivalent rendering? KJV-only author H. D. Williams asserted: “Under no circumstance shall an anachronism be used in translating. It is wrong to refer to an item that did not exist in the Biblical times. It will not be true to the culture and historical setting” (Word-for-Word, p. 230). KJV-only author Floyd Jones wrote: “An anachronism is the placing of a person or thing outside its proper time frame. The result would be the creation of an erroneous historical setting” (Chronology, p. 1). Jason Lisle declared: “To force a modern meaning on an ancient word would not be true to the author’s intention. This error is called the semantic anachronism fallacy” (Understanding, p. 129). Did a printed book or even a handwritten codex exist when the prophet Isaiah wrote?

James White observed: “Reading into the text ideas and concepts that would have been foreign to the original writers and far beyond their intentions is called eisegesis rather than the appropriate activity of exegesis” (Pulpit Crimes, p. 55). James White defined eisegesis as “the reading into a text” … “a meaning that is not supported by the grammar, syntax, lexical meanings, and over-all context of the original” (p. 96). Gordon Fee observed: “A text cannot mean what it never could have meant to its author or readers” (How to Read, p. 77). Jason Lisle explained eisegesis as “reading into a text based on external opinions foreign to the original audience” (Understanding, p. 289). Jason Lisle noted: “The approach of ‘reading into’ the text based on our beliefs is called ‘eisegesis’ (p. 36). Jason Lisle asserted: “Eisegesis is not faithful to the intentions of the author, and therefore will not consistently arrive at the correct interpretation” (p. 289). KJV-only author H. D. Williams wrote: “Another way of saying this is that they practice eisegesis, which is reading into the Scripture what they want it to say” (Septuagint, p. 92).

Is the original intended meaning of Isaiah and other scripture authors being harmed by KJV-only eisegesis as KJV-only advocates seem to read into verses what they want them to say? Could KJV-only eisegesis sometimes be in effect a rewriting of Scripture?
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jack McElroy contended: “Each Bible says and means two different things. The Lord can’t have the same verses saying two different things without looking inconsistent” (Which Bible, p. 138). Jack McElroy asserted: “The Lord can’t recommend both of these Bibles because they say and mean the exact opposite” (p. 139). Jack McElroy made his statements concerning the KJV and the NKJV, but the same things would apply to actual differences between the pre-1611 English Bibles and the KJV.

Does Jack McElroy attempt to dictate to the Lord Jesus Christ what He must do? Does Jack McElroy ignore and avoid the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ blessed the reading and preaching of the 1560 Geneva Bible for around 100 years even though it has some renderings that say and mean different things than those in the later 1611 KJV and even though it follows some different textual readings than those in the KJV? Would Jack McElroy suggest that if the 1560 Geneva Bible wasn’t a “standard English Bible based on the best Greek text then God made a terrible mistake rolling it out in the first place?” (Bible Version Secrets, p. 333).

At Job 30:29, the 1560 Geneva Bible and the KJV say and mean different things as they render a Hebrew name as two different birds [ostriches—Geneva and owls—KJV], and yet God chose to bless them both. God permitted some and even many verses in the Geneva Bible and the KJV to say different things that are not verbally equivalent and that do not mean the same thing. Would Jack McElroy in effect accuse the Lord Jesus Christ of looking inconsistent because He blessed both the use of the earlier 1560 Geneva Bible and the later 1611 KJV? Does the 1560 Geneva Bible provide compelling evidence that would refute Jack McElroy’s inconsistent human reasoning concerning Bible translations? Would KJV-only advocates in effect be Bible rejecters if they were to question or reject the 1560 Geneva Bible and other pre-1611 English Bibles? One of the fruits of the 1560 Geneva Bible and other pre-1611 English Bibles would be the later 1611 KJV.
 
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