Is the Land of Israel Still a Special Place to God?

[Scripture More Accurately]

I can see how you would think this passage implies that the land was special to God, but I must respectfully disagree. God punishes all who disobey Him, just as He is pleased with all who obey Him, wherever they may be. It was only natural for the Assyrians to refer to YHWH as "the God of the land", since He was the God of the Israelites, who had been exiled.

I believe verses 27-28 are the key to this passage. The reason God sent the lions to punish the Assyrians was so they would turn to Him.

Not true. The passage directly states that those people did not turn to the Lord and turn away from their sinful, idolatrous practices:

2 Kings 17:29 Howbeit every nation made gods of their own, and put them in the houses of the high places which the Samaritans had made, every nation in their cities wherein they dwelt. 30 And the men of Babylon made Succothbenoth, and the men of Cuth made Nergal, and the men of Hamath made Ashima, 31 And the Avites made Nibhaz and Tartak, and the Sepharvites burnt their children in fire to Adrammelech and Anammelech, the gods of Sepharvaim. 32 So they feared the LORD, and made unto themselves of the lowest of them priests of the high places, which sacrificed for them in the houses of the high places. 33 They feared the LORD, and served their own gods, after the manner of the nations whom they carried away from thence. 34 Unto this day they do after the former manners: they fear not the LORD, neither do they after their statutes, or after their ordinances, or after the law and commandment which the LORD commanded the children of Jacob, whom he named Israel;

2 Kings 17:41 So these nations feared the LORD, and served their graven images, both their children, and their children's children: as did their fathers, so do they unto this day.

The peoples that the Assyrian king brought into the land never did turn away from their idolatry and other sins even though they did in some manner and to some extent fear the Lord as well.

 

[Lodic]

Not true. The passage directly states that those people did not turn to the Lord and turn away from their sinful, idolatrous practices:

2 Kings 17:29 Howbeit every nation made gods of their own, and put them in the houses of the high places which the Samaritans had made, every nation in their cities wherein they dwelt. 30 And the men of Babylon made Succothbenoth, and the men of Cuth made Nergal, and the men of Hamath made Ashima, 31 And the Avites made Nibhaz and Tartak, and the Sepharvites burnt their children in fire to Adrammelech and Anammelech, the gods of Sepharvaim. 32 So they feared the LORD, and made unto themselves of the lowest of them priests of the high places, which sacrificed for them in the houses of the high places. 33 They feared the LORD, and served their own gods, after the manner of the nations whom they carried away from thence. 34 Unto this day they do after the former manners: they fear not the LORD, neither do they after their statutes, or after their ordinances, or after the law and commandment which the LORD commanded the children of Jacob, whom he named Israel;

2 Kings 17:41 So these nations feared the LORD, and served their graven images, both their children, and their children's children: as did their fathers, so do they unto this day.

The peoples that the Assyrian king brought into the land never did turn away from their idolatry and other sins even though they did in some manner and to some extent fear the Lord as well.

Since verses 27-28 tells us that one of the priests was released to teach them how to fear God, some individuals may have converted, but the Assyrians as a whole remained pagan.

On the other hand, God sent Jonah to Nineveh, and the people of that city repented. Was God interested in Nineveh, or in the people of the city? Same with the land of Israel. Regardless of history, any land is just so much dirt. God has always been looking for a people who would follow Him.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Since verses 27-28 tells us that one of the priests was released to teach them how to fear God, some individuals may have converted, but the Assyrians as a whole remained pagan.

On the other hand, God sent Jonah to Nineveh, and the people of that city repented. Was God interested in Nineveh, or in the people of the city? Same with the land of Israel. Regardless of history, any land is just so much dirt. God has always been looking for a people who would follow Him.

There is a vital difference between what 2 Kings 17 reveals about God's dealing with the land of the Northern Kingdom and with his dealing with the Ninehevites in their land. The latter were already in their land prior to Jonah's coming there.

We do not read in Scripture that God was continually sending lions upon all the peoples that the Assyrian king brought into the land while they were still in their lands so that they would fear Him.

There is no legitimate denying that God dealt with them differently once they had been brought into the land of the Northern Kingdom than He did prior to that point. That difference is the point--regardless of whoever inhabited His land, God acted in response to what was done in His land in a manner that Scripture does not show that He acted in response to what those same pagans had been doing in their pagan lands prior to their entering His land.

 

[Lodic]

There is a vital difference between what 2 Kings 17 reveals about God's dealing with the land of the Northern Kingdom and with his dealing with the Ninehevites in their land. The latter were already in their land prior to Jonah's coming there.

We do not read in Scripture that God was continually sending lions upon all the peoples that the Assyrian king brought into the land while they were still in their lands so that they would fear Him.

There is no legitimate denying that God dealt with them differently once they had been brought into the land of the Northern Kingdom than He did prior to that point. That difference is the point--regardless of whoever inhabited His land, God acted in response to what was done in His land in a manner that Scripture does not show that He acted in response to what those same pagans had been doing in their pagan lands prior to their entering His land.

God's actions to people doesn't change based on where they are. The entire earth is His land.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

God's actions to people doesn't change based on where they are. The entire earth is His land.

This is precisely what 2 Kings 17 shows is not true.

The land of Israel was His land in a unique way that the rest of the earth has never been.

2 Chr. 7:20 Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this house, which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my sight, and will make it to be a proverb and a byword among all nations.

Isa. 14:25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.

Jer. 2:7 And I brought you into a plentiful country, to eat the fruit thereof and the goodness thereof; but when ye entered, ye defiled my land, and made mine heritage an abomination.

Jer. 16:18 And first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double; because they have defiled my land, they have filled mine inheritance with the carcases of their detestable and abominable things.

Ezek. 36:5 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.

Ezek. 38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

Joel 1:6 For a nation is come up upon my land, strong, and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he hath the cheek teeth of a great lion.

Joel 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

 

[Lodic]

This is precisely what 2 Kings 17 shows is not true.

The land of Israel was His land in a unique way that the rest of the earth has never been.

2 Chr. 7:20 Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this house, which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my sight, and will make it to be a proverb and a byword among all nations.

Isa. 14:25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.

Jer. 2:7 And I brought you into a plentiful country, to eat the fruit thereof and the goodness thereof; but when ye entered, ye defiled my land, and made mine heritage an abomination.

Jer. 16:18 And first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double; because they have defiled my land, they have filled mine inheritance with the carcases of their detestable and abominable things.

Ezek. 36:5 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.

Ezek. 38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

Joel 1:6 For a nation is come up upon my land, strong, and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he hath the cheek teeth of a great lion.

Joel 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

God had set aside that land to give to Israel, which we see in Abraham's encounter with Melchizedek. Eventually, God actually gave the land to Israel as their inheritance, as we see unfolding in Joshua. Later, Israel lost the land God had given them and they were exiled for their unfaithfulness. Finally, a remnant returned from Judah's exile, which they lost again in AD 70. Nothing special about the land except its unique history.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

God had set aside that land to give to Israel, which we see in Abraham's encounter with Melchizedek. Eventually, God actually gave the land to Israel as their inheritance, as we see unfolding in Joshua. Later, Israel lost the land God had given them and they were exiled for their unfaithfulness. Finally, a remnant returned from Judah's exile, which they lost again in AD 70. Nothing special about the land except its unique history.

This is the position that people come to when they refuse to accept multiple Scripture passages that directly teach otherwise.

 

[Lodic]

This is the position that people come to when they refuse to accept multiple Scripture passages that directly teach otherwise.

Your position is neither explicitly nor implicitly taught. This view is your interpretation of those passages. While I can see why you have come to your conclusions, they are your conclusions and not things that Scripture teaches - directly or otherwise.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Your position is neither explicitly nor implicitly taught. This view is your interpretation of those passages. While I can see why you have come to your conclusions, they are your conclusions and not things that Scripture teaches - directly or otherwise.

Every passage that I have treated states truths about God in relation to that land. It is you who does not accept what those statements either say or imply. I understand that you have to do so given what your larger views are.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Psalm 48:2 Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.

Matthew 5:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

In His day, Jesus confirmed, just as the Psalmist under inspiration proclaimed long ago in Ps. 48:2, that Jerusalem was still the city of the great King. Jesus thus taught that Jerusalem was still a uniquely special city to God as the great King over all.

Jesus said this at a time when there was not any Jewish king ruling over that city. Jesus' words link directly with the revelation about Melchizedek to show that Jerusalem had been (and still was) a uniquely special royal city to God from the time of Melchizedek until that very day that Jesus spoke these words!

 

[Lodic]

Psalm 48:2 Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.

Matthew 5:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

In His day, Jesus confirmed, just as the Psalmist under inspiration proclaimed long ago in Ps. 48:2, that Jerusalem was still the city of the great King. Jesus thus taught that Jerusalem was still a uniquely special city to God as the great King over all.

Jesus said this at a time when there was not any Jewish king ruling over that city. Jesus' words link directly with the revelation about Melchizedek to show that Jerusalem had been (and still was) a uniquely special royal city to God from the time of Melchizedek until that very day that Jesus spoke these words!

I believe you are not reading these passages in their proper context. Rather, you are looking for passages to support your view. For instance, Psalm 48 is about God's greatness in Zion, but God is the focus. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus was teaching about proper attitudes of the heart. Matt 5:33-37 is about taking oaths. I believe you are mistaken in your view, but it's really no big deal when compared with more important issues like salvation, dealing with sin, etc. Blessings, Brother.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I believe you are not reading these passages in their proper context. Rather, you are looking for passages to support your view. For instance, Psalm 48 is about God's greatness in Zion, but God is the focus. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus was teaching about proper attitudes of the heart. Matt 5:33-37 is about taking oaths. I believe you are mistaken in your view, but it's really no big deal when compared with more important issues like salvation, dealing with sin, etc. Blessings, Brother.

Actually, no, I am reading the passages properly. Psalm 48 profoundly highlights the importance of the city of God:

Psalm 48:1 <A Song and Psalm for the sons of Korah.> Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness. 2 Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.

Psalm 48:8 As we have heard, so have we seen in the city of the LORD of hosts, in the city of our God: God will establish it for ever. Selah.

The fourfold explicit statements about city of God require that the passage be properly understood to be focusing on the city of our God. In that respect, consider what The Bible Knowledge Commentary: OT has to say about this Psalm:

"Psalm 48 is a song about Zion, the city of God, the great king. In praising God who loves Jerusalem, the psalmist sang of the city's glory and security because the Lord delivered it from the enemy. On the basis of this, he offered praise to God" (p. 829; bold added to the original).

Furthermore, the understanding that a certain passage is "about" something does not in any way preclude the importance of careful attention to the Spirit's specific statements in that passage. Such thorough handling of details is an essential aspect of properly formulating both systematic theology and biblical theology and properly exegeting Scripture.

 

[Salty]

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