Is the Pope as he claims “God on Earth”.

[Particular]

"But since WE HOLD upon this earth the place of God Almighty,

Who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the Truth, and now that Our advanced age and the bitterness of anxious cares urge Us on towards the end common to every mortal, We feel drawn to follow the example of Our Redeemer and Master, Jesus Christ, Who, when about to return to Heaven, implored of God, His Father, in earnest Prayer, that His Disciples and followers should be of one mind and of one heart: I pray . . . that they all may be one, as Thou Father in Me, and I in Thee: that they also may be one in Us. And as this Divine Prayer and Supplication does not include only the souls who then believed in Jesus Christ, but also every one of those who were henceforth to believe in Him, this Prayer holds out to Us no indifferent reason for confidently expressing Our hopes, and for making all possible endeavors in order that the men of every race and clime should be called and moved to embrace the Unity of Divine Faith."

WE hold = We = All the bishops of the world

So...the group makes up a pantheon of God and takes God's place on Earth?

That is an amazingly prideful and arrogant claim by Rome.

Of course, there is zero biblical support for their claim. It's the equivalent of Muhammed or Joseph Smith claiming to be the last great prophet of God just because they say so and they can convince a bunch of ignorant people to believe them.

What a great delusion your leaders have created for you.

 

[Adonia]

"Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Be careful, SDA folks don't seem to last long on this board. You folks are good for awhile but then you lose control and poof! - you are gone.

 

[Adonia]

The difference is that The RCC carried our its murders from its beginning (as well as its Eastern arm, The Orthodox.) It only does not do so now as is doesn't have the power. (But it did under Hitler and Mussolini.)

Hey, how many people did your Oliver Cromwell and his henchmen kill?

 

[Particular]

Hey, how many people did your Oliver Cromwell and his henchmen kill?

Is it plus or minus inquisition?

 

[Walpole]

Or as Queen Victoria said,"WE are not amused.

It is used as a Royal WE.

Just as performers say "This is our latest film" or "Our latest song."

Your argument is ridiculous. Popes often use WE instead of "ME." It comes with claiming to be God.
"

FYI, Leo XIII did not speak nor write his apostolic letter in the Queen's English. Rather, he spoke Italian and Latin and the apostolic letter you completely misquoted (deceptively I presume) was written in Latin. One of the beautiful things about the Latin language is that it is dead and hence its meaning does not change or evolve like modern language.

Hence, his words, "Nobis, velut itinere devio, digredientem. — Iamvero, cum Dei omnipotentis vices in terris geramus..." leave no doubt the WE (nobis) are the audience to whom he is addressing his letter: the bishops of the Catholic world.

Also, this is a classic example of "When control-v paste jobs go bad" as the letter is all about...wait for it...wait for it...wait for it...the desire for UNITY between the Eastern schismatic Church with that of the Catholic Church.


---> Praeclara gratulationis (20 Iunii 1894) | LEO XIII

Let US create man in OUR image Genesis 1:26 So God created man in HIS OWN image Genesis 1:27

Christians would point to the fact that God is a plurality of Persons; what we call the Trinity. Hence the use of "OUR" by God.

 

[Walpole]

So...the group makes up a pantheon of God and takes God's place on Earth?

I surrender. You are definitely the Straw Man champion. I hereby officially crown you.

That is an amazingly prideful and arrogant claim by Rome.

Of course, there is zero biblical support for their claim. It's the equivalent of Muhammed or Joseph Smith claiming to be the last great prophet of God just because they say so and they can convince a bunch of ignorant people to believe them.

What a great delusion your leaders have created for you.

The Church's authority comes from Jesus Christ.

This is Christianity 101.

 

[Particular]

I surrender. You are definitely the Straw Man champion. I hereby officially crown you.

Nope. I quoted you. That's not a strawman.

The Church's authority comes from Jesus Christ.

Nope. Rome gets no authority from Jesus. It speaks a different gospel than Jesus.

This is Christianity 101.

Rome is certainly not Christianity 101. It's catechism 2000+.

 

[Walpole]

Unlike when Paedobaptists were drowning Credobaptists?

It seems like a distinction without a difference to me.
(I think that I need to bow out now. It really isn't my place to defend the RCC or the Pope. You should just be honest with your criticism. As a Calvinist, that is all that I ask from others for my beliefs ... honest criticism.)

I find arguing with people about this is a lost cause for three reasons. First, they always grossly exaggerate figures. Secondly, they are simply ignorant and just post control-v paste jobs from anti-Catholic web sites. Lastly, they view history through the biased lens of a person living in the 21st century.

If anyone would actually do some homework, they would know the Church had no authority to execute anyone for heresy. Rather, in medieval Europe, the state ruled by what they believed were Divine right (even Protestant sovereigns). Therefore the state enacted laws stating that heresy was an act of sedition, which was therefore punishable as a capital crime. (Even in a few Western countries today, sedition is still punishable as a capital crime). The Church was merely used by the State to determine if one was a heretic or not.

Capital punishment was much more widely used in the Middle Ages than it is today; thus you cannot use a 21st century juridical mindset to judge medieval Europe. If you want to discuss whether the State's prosecution of heresy was ineffective, that's a valid position (and one to which I would agree). However, that's about the extent of any argument one can put forth. However, it's an argument one would have to put forth against all states in the Middle Ages, including Protestant ones.

Baylor University's Rodney Stark (himself a Protestant) wrote a great book destroying many of these types of Protestant lies. I would strongly recommend it for anyone serious about this topic.

 

[Walpole]

Nope. I quoted you. That's not a strawman.

Please quote me where I said a "group makes up a pantheon of God and takes God's place on Earth."

Post my quotation here ---> ______________________

Do that and I will rescind your Straw Man championship crown.

Nope. Rome gets no authority from Jesus. It speaks a different gospel than Jesus.

"...Tu est Petrus..." - Jesus

Christianity 101.

Rome is certainly not Christianity 101. It's catechism 2000+.

Indeed, 2000 years and counting!

 

[Particular]

I find arguing with people about this is a lost cause for three reasons. First, they always grossly exaggerate figures. Secondly, they are simply ignorant and just post control-v paste jobs from anti-Catholic web sites. Lastly, they view history through the biased lens of a person living in the 21st century.

If anyone would actually do some homework, they would know the Church had no authority to execute anyone for heresy. Rather, in medieval Europe, the state ruled by what they believed were Divine right (even Protestant sovereigns). Therefore the state enacted laws stating that heresy was an act of sedition, which was therefore punishable as a capital crime. (Even in a few Western countries today, sedition is still punishable as a capital crime). The Church was merely used by the State to determine if one was a heretic or not.

Capital punishment was much more widely used in the Middle Ages than it is today; thus you cannot use a 21st century juridical mindset to judge medieval Europe. If you want to discuss whether the State's prosecution of heresy was ineffective, that's a valid position (and one to which I would agree). However, that's about the extent of any argument one can put forth. However, it's an argument one would have to put forth against all states in the Middle Ages, including Protestant ones.

Baylor University's Rodney Stark (himself a Protestant) wrote a great book destroying many of these types of Protestant lies. I would strongly recommend it for anyone serious about this topic.

Do you mean to tell us that Rome had no ability to coerce the State to stop killing people?
At best, you argue the sin of omission whereby your church purposely remained silent for its own benefit.
No matter how you attempt to spin it, Rome acted wickedly for over a millennium.

 

[Particular]

Please quote me where I said a "group makes up a pantheon of God and takes God's place on Earth."

Post my quotation here --->

Here it is:

"But since WE HOLD upon this earth the place of God Almighty,

WE hold = We = All the bishops of the world
______________________

Do that and I will rescind your Straw Man championship crown.

Start rescinding.

"...Tu est Petrus..." - Jesus
Christianity 101.

The Latin says "Jesus Christianity 101? I think it translates to "You are Peter." That's hardly "Rome is Jesus chosen church."

Indeed, 2000 years and counting!

A perfect example of your poor comprehension.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

In his encyclical, "The Reunion of Christendom" (1885), Pope Leo XIII stated that the pope holds "upon this earth the place of God Almighty."

In the Catechism, can be found the following: "The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth...by divine right the pope has supreme and full power in faith and morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true Vicar of Christ, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by one, God himself on earth." and also "The Pope can make and unmake laws for the entire Church; his authority is supreme and unquestioned. Every bishop, every priest, every member of the Church is subject to him."

Here are some others…"The Pope is not simply the representative of Jesus Christ. On the contrary, he is Jesus Christ Himself, under the veil of the flesh." (Evangelical Christendom, January 1, 1895, pg. 15, published in London by J. S. Phillips)

"Against this background of love towards Holy Church, 'the pillar and bulwark of the truth' (1 Tim 3:15), we readily understand the devotion of Saint Francis of Assisi for 'THE LORD POPE', the daughterly outspokenness of Saint Catherine of Siena towards the one whom she called 'SWEET CHRIST ON EARTH'." (Pope John Paul II, Apostolic Exhortation on the Consecrated Life and Its Mission in the Church and in the World, to the bishops and clergy, religious orders and congregations, societies of apostolic life, secular institutes, and all the faithful, given in Rome, at Saint Peter's, March 25, 1996)

"The Pope is of so great dignity, and so exalted that he is not a mere man, but as it were God and the vicar of God." (Ferraris Ecclesiastical dictionary)

"All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope." (On the Authority of the Councils, book 2, chapter 17)

"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth." (Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, "Cities Petrus Bertanous)

"To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical." (the Gloss "Extravagantes" o.f Pope John XXII *** inter, Tit. XIV, Cap. IV. Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium, Paris, 1685)

"Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions." (Ferraris, «Prompta Bibliotheca», 1763, Volume VI, 'Papa II', p.26)

"The Saviour Himself is the door of the sheepfold: 'I am the door of the sheep.' Into this fold of Jesus Christ, no man may enter unless he be led by the Sovereign Pontiff; and only if they be united to him can men be saved, for the Roman Pontiff is the Vicar of Christ and His personal representative on earth." (Pope John XXIII in his homily to the Bishops and faithful assisting at his coronation on November 4, 1958)

"This is our last lesson to you: receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God's commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church; the strong and effective instrument of salvation is none other than the Roman Pontificate." (Pope Leo XIII, Allocution for the 25th anniversary of his election, February 20, 1903; Papal Teachings: The Church, Benedictine Monks of Solesmes, St. Paul Editions, Boston, 1962, par. 653)

He calls himself the Supreme ruler of heaven and earth, the Supreme Pontiff, the Holy Father, which belong only to God and "God himself on earth". No such terms were given to a mere man anywhere in scripture and the term "Holy Father" is used only by Jesus in John 17:11 as He prayed to God the Father. For a sinful man to assume the authority and titles which belong only to God, seems the height of blasphemy.

So the Pope has laid claim to take the place of God with infallible authority and we find the Council of Trent declared: "Sitting in that chair in which Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, sat to the close of life, the Catholic Church recognizes in his person the most exalted degree of dignity, and the full jurisdiction not based on constitutions, but emanating from no less authority than from God Himself. As the Successor of St. Peter and the true and legitimate Vicar of Jesus Christ, he therefore, presides over the Universal Church, the Father and Governor of all the faithful, of Bishops, also and of all other prelates, be their station, rant, or power, what they may be."

So its not just the Pope, the councils have also laid claim that the Pope holds of himself what can only be termed as "God on Earth".

No he isn’t GOE

 

[atpollard]

No he isn’t GOE

That’s a relief.

 

[Walpole]

Here it is:

"But since WE HOLD upon this earth the place of God Almighty,

WE hold = We = All the bishops of the world
______________________

I don't see anywhere where I stated a group makes up a pantheon of God and takes God's place on Earth. Strike one.

Start rescinding.

Until you can quote me stating there exists a group which makes up a pantheon of God and takes God's place on Earth, you are still the Straw Man champion and are safely holding onto your crown and title.

The Latin says "Jesus Christianity 101? I think it translates to "You are Peter." That's hardly "Rome is Jesus chosen church."


A perfect example of your poor comprehension.

I thought you would get the reference but it clearly went over your head. Maybe this will help...

---> "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." - Jesus

 

[Walpole]

Do you mean to tell us that Rome had no ability to coerce the State to stop killing people?
At best, you argue the sin of omission whereby your church purposely remained silent for its own benefit.
No matter how you attempt to spin it, Rome acted wickedly for over a millennium.

Thank you for demonstrating the veracity of my post, as you made each one of my points in almost real-time.

 

[David Kent]

Here it is:

"But since WE HOLD upon this earth the place of God Almighty,

WE hold = We = All the bishops of the world

That makes it a Panthéon as I see it.

But they have another Panthéon, the Panthéon of saints. All gods in the Panthéon had a particular job so the so called saints have a particular job. A town near here, where I used to live, had two saints one of which was the patron saint of shoe makers. Many saints have since been de-saintized some because they never existed. St Denis was patron saint of Paris till they recognised that he didn't exist. He was the one who was belied to have been executed and then carried his head under his arm and carried it to the place of his burial. In France, every town and village has is patron saint or demigod watching over it, and most will have a feast day to celebrate it, the Féte Patronale.

 

[David Kent]

Hey, how many people did your Oliver Cromwell and his henchmen kill?

I don't know, but Cromwell was one of the most humane rulers of his time. When there was a mutiny in his army, Cromwell hung the leader and pardoned the remainder when other generals would have hung them all. When "The Fifth Monarchists" tried to overthrow him, he had them jailed in Carisbrooke Castle on the Isle of Wight. When the Catholic Charles II gained power and they tried to overthrow him, he had them hung, drawn and quartered.

At the time of Cromwell the Catholics in Ireland began a pogrom against the Protestants, where the only safe pace for protestants was Dublin. They were led by the so called priests who told those being murdered that there agonies were less that the eternal woes they would endure. They were forbidden burial (Revelation 11:9) except for the burial of the living.

 

[Adonia]

I don't know, but Cromwell was one of the most humane rulers of his time. When there was a mutiny in his army, Cromwell hung the leader and pardoned the remainder when other generals would have hung them all. When "The Fifth Monarchists" tried to overthrow him, he had them jailed in Carisbrooke Castle on the Isle of Wight. When the Catholic Charles II gained power and they tried to overthrow him, he had them hung, drawn and quartered.

At the time of Cromwell the Catholics in Ireland began a pogrom against the Protestants, where the only safe pace for protestants was Dublin. They were led by the so called priests who told those being murdered that there agonies were less that the eternal woes they would endure. They were forbidden burial (Revelation 11:9) except for the burial of the living.

From History Ireland, Irelands history magazine.


"Cromwell and his supporters considered Irish Roman Catholics as little better than savages, barbarian in their lifestyle and habits and capable of appalling atrocities against Protestant settlers. They were sub-human and dangerous, and were to be treated accordingly".

It is estimated that Ireland lost 41% of it's population in the British invasion of Ireland during the years 1649-1653. The causes were the brutal warfare practiced at the time, massacres of the civilian population, and resulting disease due to the warfare.


"A loss of more than 40 per cent of the population might, however, suggest a conscious plan of elimination based on racial and religious hatred, which in other circumstances and times would rightly be called genocide. Cromwell’s murderous campaign in Ireland was fuelled by a pathological hatred of Irish Catholics, which he himself clearly expressed". How nice.

Edmund Ludlow, one of the Parliamentarian commanders in Ireland wrote that the tactics used by Cromwell at Drogheda showed "extraordinary severity". In the battle for that town, Cromwell ordered that no quarter be given, and the majority of the garrison and Catholic priests were killed.

All hail the "humane" savior Oliver Cromwell!

 

[Particular]

Did Cromwell claim to be God on Earth, the very word of God?

 

[Adonia]

Did Cromwell claim to be God on Earth, the very word of God?

He obviously set himself up as God, deciding personally who would be eliminated from this earth. People like him always invoked the Almighty as they committed massacre after massacre on those with whom they disagreed with on matters of faith.